Hey guys, I am not quite sure if this is the right format to adress these thougts and I am pretty sure many people already have and/or gave their opinion on that, but with Intermission II and the latest reward changes in arbitration a few patches ago, I feel like I somehow need to give my two cents about this matter. And for everyone who doesn't want to read everything (still some text) -> scroll down to "Conclusion".

First of all: with the term "useless" I don't refer to stuff that "I don't want cuz it's shit" or something like that since if we only follow that rule, we'd probably have to agree that we need to delete 99,9% of all rewards since everyone feels like "i don't want this or that" about different drops. So my point will be to improve the rewards without taking already existing rewards out of the game.

What I mean by "useless" is either "no use" or "no value in comparison". The drops I want to adress should make this more clear anyway.

Where do we find my specific "problem"?

What are those "useless" drops?

  • Skins
  • Syandanas
  • Ephemeras
  • Armor Bundles 
  • (some mods)

What makes them useless?

The main problem here is, that those aren't just a "one time use" but a "once time use" (if you forgive my bad pun (can you even make that pun?) in a language I don't fully know). That means, if you have them once, you won't have any use for another one since you can't sell a built Ephemera or already obtained appearance items like Skins. Even the 20k credits for an Ephemera Blueprint does not really feel as "value". You also can't trade those items. This renders those drops in Arbitration or other modes into a "wasted reward" or, what kind of hurts even more for most players, into "10k wasted Intermission/Nightwave standing".

And don't get me wrong here! I fully appreciate that you can achieve those rewards in Intermission 2 for example, if you didn't make it to the given reward in the Nightwave Acts or Intermission 1! Like for me, I still need the Saturn Six Syandana and Bundle. It's just that other players, who already grinded for that, don't get anything for reaching that rank again. And if you want the Umbra Forma or Arcane Energize, you need to step over 30-40k "wasted" standing (if we don't take mods into account here) to get those.

Why endless missions too?

This contains a more general problem with drops/rewards that don't feel rewarding and adresses my understanding of "no value in comparison". Arbitration, Fissure and ESO rewards are (besides the ephemera) on the right way in my opinion. I don't want to get too deep into that since I know there's a more public discussion about that and most of my ideas are probably already said and discussd, but being 60min into a survival fissure on Sedna just to get my second awesome Rifle Ammo Mutation in that run is just..unfortunate. The 15 endo or 1k creds you get from dissolving those rare mods can't compete with an Axi Relic either.

What to do about those issues?

Let's start with Nightwave/Intermission. This one should be pretty obvious. 50 Intermission/Nightwave Creds. 15 or 25 would be fine too as an amount, but it does not feel right before achieving max rank. Ephemera Blueprints could be made tradeable but I don't know if we need that resource on the market at that point. It also wouldn't feel that good if they said something like "if you already have that syandana, you are getting another exklusive syandana" since you then would always be behind when you miss stuff from an Act.

And what about endless missions? I totally understand if DE does not want us to stay hours over hours in such missions (a way to interpret the recent CO/Bloodrush changes) and thus not making it incredibly worthy to stay that long in there. Still, they should be called "endless" not only for "you COULD stay forever" but also in a way for "I WANT to stay forever" (and not just because it's super fun to sit in a corner for 24h in Mot with some friends(okay..that really were fun times..but still)). Because as of right now (*cough*for the last few years*cough*), most endless missions are "one C rotation at max". And that's not because players don't have time for more but because they say "rotation restarts so it's faster/easier to restart the mission too". As I said above, I think that Fissures, Arbitration and ESO are on the right track. Same goes for Disruption. Let me point out what I mean by that.

Fissures: You get boosters every reward/wave and a relic every 5 waves/rewards (in ADDITION to the normal rewards) with scaling efficiency. This is capped (what is a pro) at 20 rewards and won't increase further from that point. This would need a 100 waves defense or a 100min survival and that feels pretty okay to me (for survival at least :p). For Defense I'd say around wave 60-80 to match in terms of "difficulty" (what is arguable, I see that). This still does not adress the issue with the normal rewards for those missions but it kind of compensates in a way and therefore is definitely the right way in my eyes for fissures.

Arbitration: The obvious endless C rotation after AABB. Pro: You always get rewards from C after 25 waves defense or 25min survival. The additional bonus for Arbitration is that nearly every drop is useable since you can sell most rewards for 5-10p if you don't need them anymore.  ((I didn't want to adress it)Con: Additional Mods/Arcanes are getting unimportant very fast while maintaing 30% drop chance of the drop table)     I think that this isn't quite enough here and would like to see something like "additional 50 Endo per Endo reward after the first C rotation" and/or "filled Ayatan Sculptures starting with one cyan star, increasing every C rotiation after the first C rotation until you get fully filled Ayatan Sculptures from your 4th/5th C rotation on".

ESO: Pro:You get radiant relics from the first reward on. Only around 10-20% of each drop table is no relic and not endo. Con: You again reset after AABC so people just stay for a max of 8 waves and leave. That feels bad for a "challenging" or "elite" endless mission. And this mode could offer so much more with more rewarding rewards!

Disruption: Pro: Not only the mode itself feels awesome and is super fun but also the "you can decide if you want to start with rotation A or start with two B rotations" and that you can achieve C rotiations from the 3rd round onwards. So if we take Lua for example, you can get Axi relics right from the first round while you could also decide to get Neo relics with a 100% chance for the first 3 rounds (after that you are doomed to get an axi relic at least). Con: No.


Yes. But what does that mean? We clearly shouldn't just take all "pro" points and slap them into one reward system. Some just don't go that well together.

(smol) For Arbitrations: make the Ephemera Blueprint dissolvable for 1k Endo (at least) should be best (or at least 100k credits).

For Nightwave it's obviously still 50 (arguable amount) Intermission Creds.

For endless missions I have those two ideas to offer: "Scaling endless C-rewards" and/or "endless D-rewards". Those rewards start to appear after the first C rotation.

Scaling endless C-rewards: Scaling C-rewards mean that the rewards from the C-table will increase. That could mean (like Fissures do) that your relics from a reward scale from Intact to Radiant or your Endo from 150 to 200 and so on (to a given maximum of course). This can/should be combined with a D-rotation.

Endless D-rewards: The D-rewards would contain the "most valuable rewards" from A to C. Let's take the reward table from Survival - Normal Mission -Tier 3 for that matter. A D-rotation would therefore include: 400 Endo, Neo and Axi relics. As mentioned before, this can/should be combined with the scaling rewards (from 400 to 450 Endo and so on). As a special example let's also take into account what this could mean for Arbitrations Rewards: The new D-rewards would include

  • 1500 Endo (50% drop chance; +100 Endo per D-rotation up to 1900)
  • Ayatan Orta Sculpture (26% drop chance; +1 Cyan Star per D-rotation or +1 Cyan and +1 Amber Star after 2 rotations each)
  • Aura Forma Blueprint (4% drop chance; maybe scaling into a built Aura Forma at the last scaling rotation)
  • 3 Vitus Essence (10% drop chance; maybe scaling amount by 1 every two D-rotations up to 5 Vitus Essence per D-rotation)
  • Arcane Pistoleer and Arcane Tanker (5% drop chance for each; scaling amount by +1 Arcane up to 4x Arcane Pistoleer/Tanker) 
  • For this special case of Arbitrations rewards I would also consider shifting drop chances for the scaling Orta Scultpure (5% shifted to Endo per D-rotation or 10% per 2 rotations respectively)

To not let this get out of hand I would understand if the new rotations for these missions would be AABBCD or AABBCCD (or instead of D a scaling C). Those rewards should naturally stop scaling at some point just like Fissure bonuses do. For Disruption I thought about, starting at wave 5 or 6 for 1/2/3/4 conduits defended B/C/C/D rewards ((following the reward changes from rounds 1-4) or again instead of D a scaling C reward).

These ideas of course don't cover all forms of drops or rewards (like drops from mobs and so on) but in my opinion these are fine like they are now and not the (main) reason why people don't stay for longer than the first C rotation. But for a small guess: I think I've read about a "nemesis star chart" or something like that. This could be a way to implement those scaling rewards into non-endless missions too. Just in this case not by wave/round but by level "Tier" or something like that. But that is another topic in my eyes.

Thank you all for your time reading this and I'm really sorry for any kind of mistakes and errors my comment has.  I'd be glad if you could tell me where you think I was right or wrong or where I made mistakes.

Community content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.