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  • DE should have never put them back in. I can't go in any corpus mission no matter the level without a maxxed out weapon designed for killing them now. It's like mini-stalker every mission.

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    • U18.5 is rolling in soon. Hopefully the Bursas will be on the receiving end of the nerfbat.

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    • I think they pose an interesting challenge rather than just using Mag to destroy everything. It puts the fun back into the grindfests that were high-level Corpus missions.

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    • The only problem is that Bursas were originally designed to be fought in groups.

      They're not much fun while fighting solo. Also;

      85.159.131.144 wrote:
      I think they pose an interesting challenge rather than just using Mag to destroy everything.


      If anything, their presence made Mag more necessary than before...

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    • I'm fine with them being a threat really, but they are currently scaling so awfully stupid it's not even funny anymore. They have superior defenses due to armor on top of shields and an enormous health pool, an immense firepower that easily one-shots you in any sortie (most of the time), the most annoying crowd control in the whole game (Isolators) and are cc-resistant themselves.

      Once I went into a third sortie defense mission alone because why not and ended up not being able to kill the last enemy of the last wave due to an Isolator Bursa somehow regenerating / leeching his life back up while killing me and the operator a lot of times. I mean yeah, my Simulor and Grakatas were clearly not modded the right way for this possible encounter (on the next attempt I got a single Comba running into my Corrosive Tonkor, for Corpus..) but not being able to kill something at all ever after releasing up to one thousand bullets and 50-something orbs into it is pretty damn stupid.

      Tl;dr: They shouldn't have superior stats in every department plus reg / leech mechanics as well.

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    • I don't get why people are making a fuss about Bursas. I mean, fine, they can one-hit weaker frames but all the more to add a challenge to the game. So far, it has been pretty easy in all levels. Now something comes up that make players sweat, they start ranting against it. I personally like the addition. Finally something that can actually hurt you, apart from the Bosses (some of them).

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    • I'm not really ranting as much as stating that giving one type of enemy every advantage instead of splitting them up on different types is simply a bad design choice. Which most likely happened on accident or through not enough testing.

      I want them in the game, too, I really like the alert mechanic summoning them but I don't like one enemy being stronger than hundreds of other types of that faction due to ... reasons. -Slightly exaggerating-

      They should be hard to kill but it should not be impossible if you didn't bring an anti-armor oriented configured gun to a faction without armor on anything else except Oxium Ospreys which are suiciding anyways. I'd be fine if the only change would be them not gaining health back, so (for them) inefficient loadouts can kill them after putting your whole ammunition into them.

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    • I must admit that I am a pretty bad player at the game but I can see why people are upset about them. They blind you, they slow you down, they throw you, if there are more enemies around shooting you they can take a good chunk of health from you...  To be quite honest I accept they are a challenge but they are annoying as hell. I just came form an extermination mission that had Nitain as a reward and I just couldn't beat it because they kept coming, by the time I had to kill just 10 enemies Bursas kept coming around and instead of killing 176 to finish I had to kill 187 or so. I almost always just play solo and Bursas are meant to go with partners, but that's not my only problem with them.

      My problem with them is just that killing them doesn't feel rewarding enough for players that aren't just that good or that are going on solo, you just kill them and... nothing, they give you absolutely nothing. At least the Juggernaut gives you pieces to something that you can later use for crafting something kind of useful (even if I don't use them but oh well), Bursas just give you ammo or a bit of credits, nothing else, if they gave components to something then having to deal with them would feel more satisfying. Then, once you kill them you can hack them and they last for about less than three minutes when it took you at least five to deal with one and when you do it Lotus goes "alarms have triggered another Bursa". If it would be just one or two per mission I would understand but they just make you feel like the mission goes on and on and it just drags you, by the time you finish a mission you just don't want to play anymore because they feel really grindy. Worst thing is when you can finally hack one but the console is facing a wall, that just feels like you wasted all your effort on nothing. Having to hack all the time the alarms feels tiring too, it just makes you either go full stealth so one does not appear or hack every single console on the mission if they catch you. Sometimes I like to go stealth mode so I have no trouble with that but other times I just like to go quick and kill everything without having to stop every minute. By the time you have killed one another comes and it keeps going .Same thing happened with the Razorback event, they just threw you out there with a hundred Hyenas and a thousand Bursas expecting you to hack every single console on every room in the middle of the mayhem (at least they kind of fixed it though).

      In short, they feel like a pain in the ass even if I think they are a cool enemy, but they just suck the fun out of the game when more than two come because it feels tedious having to stop everytime. To me just making one appear per mission would be enough or maybe just making them appear in a specific type of mission so they feel more like a mini-boss than a chore, and maybe giving something when you kill them.

      PS: Also they seem to ignore Rhino's iron skin by stunning, slowing you down, etc, which feels weird when every other enemy can't, making them feel more likea mini-boss rather than a rare enemy that comes every time an alarm sounds.

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    • 82.158.142.36 wrote:

      "you just kill them and... nothing, they give you absolutely nothing. [...] Bursas just give you ammo or a bit of credits, nothing else"

      That's another thing. I saw that they can drop Life Strike and Tempo Royale, but that chance must be really low. I'd at least like something of value consistently for dealing with these super-bastards if they're staying. 

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    • you guys on pc?

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    • Pussies...

      Just for your information, i beat two Denial Bursa with my small account in a solo Jupiter Defense at wave 15, what is really ,,Ninjas play free" i never ever bought anything with platinum.

      My weapons were Braton, Aklato, and Mk-1 Furax combined with Excalibur.

      The fun factor is, that they deal damage, yes. But the cc they can deal is far more deadly than the damage, when you got stunlocked. I find even the Broken Equilibrium pretty damn useful, when the map had energy globes before the rounds and i collected them for health.

      Yes, indeed i died twice in the process, but now i am able to dodge almost every cc of them, and understand the strategy they use.


      So, in summary:

      They are a threat, what we have to learn do deal with. NOT Crying for the nerfhammer.

      Improve yourself, instead of nerf every simple thing that could kill you, if you just rush in without thinking, or searching for cover.

      (that's what happened with poor stalker...)

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    • Agreed ^

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    • Let me get that straight: You're comparing a lvl20? mission to horribly scaled enemies at lvl100 and seem to have no idea what you're talking about. That's quite something, cute actually.

      It's funny how people with your attitude always generalise and miss the point entirely. If you've read or comprehended the opinions in this thread you might come to the understanding that they actually have some design flaws and aren't rewarding at all. Furthermore, I can't even begin to grasp your flawed reasoning in equaling a discussion on a wiki to an actual call for a nerf.

      That aside, Denial Bursas? Are you kidding me? They completely show you how badly these three enemies were implemented in the first place since they are nowhere near a match to Drovers, let alone Isolators.

      I have no problem dealing with them. In fact, it's quite easy if you have the right tools at hand. Like a corrosive side-arm. Totally useful for the other Corpus units, I guess. It makes the whole gearing up against different factions even more one-dimensional and boring since you can't kill a high level Bursa without some matching damage type. And even though it's easy, it's still neither fun nor rewarding. Just tedious.

      By the way, thanks for the advice for taking cover, I'll totally do that the next time an Isolator is shooting his shotgun on range, hitting everytime bypassing the need to use their ridiculous cc. Because that's what a support unit does, right?

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    • You mean the frame which press 4 and spam E to win?

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    • Squeeaaaaaak *slam slam slam*

      (¬_¬)

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    • Well-well.

      That was one example i came up with but. But...

      Yes i compare a level 20 mission, because the account in topic is MR5 with rank 4 Serration, and Rank 5 Hornet Strike. If we roughly compare it to a much higher mission, there is not that much difference except: That account does NOT have Quick Thinking and Rage, nor Valkyr.Or any useful mod setup for your so called End-Game missions.

      As i said i used a Braton, and Aklato, what did merely no damage, but was able to keep their shields from regenerating, and when i got enough energy, yes i actually was lucky enough to get an Energy Siphon alert, i hit the Blind and got in melee range to deal with their health.

      When my main account is against the Bursas, i just simply show them one of my shotguns, Hek does a pretty great job against them. And they are not that dangerous as you would think in first. (remember, if you cannot deal with an enemy, scan them, and later simulate them in the simulacrum)

      And just for your information, you always could divide and conquer them. Drovers hell of a runners, the other two are not that much of an issue. What could be a bit wrong is their turning mechanism, that's ALL. Other than that, there are finally some enemy, that pose a threat and have to deal with care, and some strategy, instead of, meh i hit something, maybe it will drop some mod i could sell to get even more bored to the game.

      And for my last few word, i feel no hate, nor any negative emotion. I feel emptiness, because there are quite a few player that enjoy this game as much as me. And when i said i was able to kill them with an early gamer account that means, if i could do it, you could also. I am not a pro gamer. (and show me where is written down, that a support unit cannot use weapons against you)

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    • Almost forgot it: spawning mechanism. *psht* ~don't trigger the alarms~

      ^^ Joke aside yeah, i know, i know. Hard to not trigger them.

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    • That post was much better than the previous one, thank you for that.

      Yeah, the Hek works pretty well but i don't want to play shotguns all of the time. I still disagree on the comparison because as I wrote in an earlier post, I was literally not able to kill one Isolator with "all" my ammunition of Simulor and the Grakatas due to no ideal damage types for them. Melee doesn't do much on higher levels unless you have a matching frame or your combo counter is high enough already and that's usually not what I do in a sortie defense mission.

      I like the idea of them too, definitely. Their turning is irritating at times, that's true. It might make enough of a difference if it were changed a bit. They also could be a little bit less bullet-spongey though (mainly the armor, I guess) :D

      A support unit should definitely use weapons and the Amprex shotgun they got is quite something but I find it a bit too strong at times, especially at range (doesn't happen that often). Sure, the Drover rocket spam is more dangerous most of the time but it has travel time and you can react.

      The alarm mechanism is definitely awesome and it brings something to those "normal" missions where you'd usually just rush through. I feel sorry though whenever I read that somebody got really ambushed by a good bunch of them in an alert or syndicate mission, kind of like they aren't capped or something.


      I hope you believe me when I say that I might count to those people who really enjoy this game =D That said, I'd be sad too if they actually nerf them too much. It would be a real shame.

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    • Todays Sorti is a wash due to the rush of multiple invincible bursa. I even damage speced my primary just to try and deal with them but they just take some damage and then heal to max. 8 tries and no one could kill more than one of the 5 or more that spawn right at the start.

      You might enjoy the challenge but invicible kill machines isn't a challenge when you have no hope of killing them.

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    • I think the only way to go against these behemoths are that you load out your Corpus-killing build, like Magentic or all around Corrosive damage when going in an Corpus mission. Thats common sense. Gone are the times when any weapon could damage anyone. Main downside to this is that most players don't even consider elemental damage when loading out. Damage 2.0 showed us the real deal and seperated idiots from serious players. I once saw an idiot with Rakta Cernos trying to kill one of the Bursas. Needless to say, he ran out of revives. Plan accordingly and I don't think that Bursas will pose much of a threat. I'm glad the way DE is going with these addtions. Makes the game more difficult and away from its brainless killing goal since its release. Simple as that. Take for example their intended release of Kavats. I'm an avid Loki Prime user, making quick disposal of those Grineer missions using the invisi.Facing Kavats on above Lvl 80 Grineer mission, will force me to change my tactics. And I'm happy for this. Build like an idiot, you get wasted. So guys, stop whining and improve your skills.

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    • Oh, another one too stupid to read. The poster before you just said he modded his weapon extra for them but when they're healing back up, there's not much you can do. By the way, I was trying to reproduce this in the Simulacrum but to no avail. So, it's most likely not intended. So much for you defending "the real deal".

      Rakta Cernos can do damage to them if you know what you're doing. To assume the majority has no clue about elemental damage modding is a somewhat fucked up and arrogant attitude but to each his own. Of course, there are always some players that don't know what they're doing, most of the time with low MR. And guess what, the game didn't tell those people how sorties can be quite unfair at times while a total sleep fest at others. It's exactly this same imbalance that makes Bursas irritating, too but one has to defend artificially implemented difficulty, right. Without even considering all the facts or possible bugs.

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    • Pro tip here:

      Just HACK the console to get rip off the alert. And you will have less problems. Bursas are piece of cake if you know what to do.

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    • I might have to inform you that they spawn in endless missions as well. Not many alarms involved there.

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    • Then don't play endless mission above 30 min + if you cannot handle the bursas?

      People that play endless mission looking for challenges or? Why crying then about the bursas?

      I can single handed kill two bursas at once with Comba as backups and don't give a shit.

      Just bring a strong weapon against the Bursas and they will die in sec.

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    • Still too retarded to read heh. I guess so. I was solely pointing out how totally redundant your so called "pro tip" was. I have no problem whatsoever handling them. They're still annoying. Sorties aren't part of the game for top players only. As a matter of fact and as I stated before, they are totally boring most of the time but sometimes there is one stupid combination of mechanics making it unnecessarily unfun. There is no middle ground. And good for you that you're so overwhelmingly awesome, yet you still lack the brain capacity to comprehend the points why people don't like their current state.

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    • Rngd444, just let them sink in their belief. Now i understand you more than before thanks to the replies.

      First of all, they are a threat, yes. Have to deal with yes. Outside of endless missions (excluding Excavation and Survival), you will have no chance to pick the area where you want to fight with them. Otherwise you have the opportunity, to choose a place where you are in advantage, and they are not. Finally the people who think: ,,just bring a weapon and smack them as usual" have struggling and some of them crying already.

      What i noticed about the present and the past bursas are not just their size, but some of their skills.

      I have some shady memories about Isolator Bursa being deployed at a choke point, and you have simply no chance to get in it's back. Yeees, that was the whole point of being an Isolator. ^^ Those fancy laser walls, no chance to get trough of them, and when you squeezed yourself trough somehow, they just stood up and changed positions.

      Not even a simple idea about trying to get the advantage, and yet we were able to deal with them, but they are not bad memories, a new way to explore the game, a new way to think about aproaching an enemy, to get prepared for a fight as Lotus almost always mentions.

      I believe i have to agree with the mobility buff they got, but i would prefer a more stoic Bursa buildup, and the original size was much more appropriate (also easier to aim for them).

      So in summary again, they are not one shot, one kill enemies, Hopefully not just shotguns are good against them, but i will do a few research in order to provide more feedback about this.

      There is a rumor about the Phage against them, i personally didn't tryied it out yet, but i will today - generally the viral is a bit of a funny topic against a non-living robot stuff, but let's just skip that.

      Also try to get in touch with them, and experience more and more. And also enjoy, that is another important factor.

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    • Laveillon d' Rufus wrote:
      Almost forgot it: spawning mechanism. *psht* ~don't trigger the alarms~

      ^^ Joke aside yeah, i know, i know. Hard to not trigger them.


      This is not really about spy (that said it is very easy to do corpus spy flawlessly with some frames), it is about the lv80-100 bursas in sorties. The ones that oneshot basically anything and have about half a million HP + massive armor + flat damage reduction.

      Probably the strongest enemies in the game right now, they are outright absurd.

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    • Rhionhi wrote:

      This is not really about spy (that said it is very easy to do corpus spy flawlessly with some frames), it is about the lv80-100 bursas in sorties. The ones that oneshot basically anything and have about half a million HP + massive armor + flat damage reduction.

      Probably the strongest enemies in the game right now, they are outright absurd.

      This is exactly the point I was trying to make about the current state of Bursa and Sortie missions.

      The current sortie Intercept mission is just absurd. Multiple Bursa spawn right at the start and there just simply is no killing them. They regenerate faster than you can kill them and really do one shot an area. If they don't one shot you they spam their knockdown that once you go down you aren't getting back up again.

      This isn't about cake walking the mission it's about being able to do it at all.

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    • 199.168.151.34 wrote:

      Rhionhi wrote:

      This is not really about spy (that said it is very easy to do corpus spy flawlessly with some frames), it is about the lv80-100 bursas in sorties. The ones that oneshot basically anything and have about half a million HP + massive armor + flat damage reduction.

      Probably the strongest enemies in the game right now, they are outright absurd.

      This is exactly the point I was trying to make about the current state of Bursa and Sortie missions.

      The current sortie Intercept mission is just absurd. Multiple Bursa spawn right at the start and there just simply is no killing them. They regenerate faster than you can kill them and really do one shot an area. If they don't one shot you they spam their knockdown that once you go down you aren't getting back up again.

      This isn't about cake walking the mission it's about being able to do it at all.

      You can kill them, it just takes a rather specific sort of team (most sortie pubs are extremely bad for some reason, surpassing the worst void pubs i see regularly). Trinity can delete them with the finger of doom, that nobody seems to know about ("LOL UR N00B BAD TRINTEA NO HAS DPS"). Some CC frames can disable them.

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    • Rhionhi wrote:
      199.168.151.34 wrote:

      Rhionhi wrote:

      This is not really about spy (that said it is very easy to do corpus spy flawlessly with some frames), it is about the lv80-100 bursas in sorties. The ones that oneshot basically anything and have about half a million HP + massive armor + flat damage reduction.

      Probably the strongest enemies in the game right now, they are outright absurd.

      This is exactly the point I was trying to make about the current state of Bursa and Sortie missions.
      The current sortie Intercept mission is just absurd. Multiple Bursa spawn right at the start and there just simply is no killing them. They regenerate faster than you can kill them and really do one shot an area. If they don't one shot you they spam their knockdown that once you go down you aren't getting back up again.

      This isn't about cake walking the mission it's about being able to do it at all.

      You can kill them, it just takes a rather specific sort of team (most sortie pubs are extremely bad for some reason, surpassing the worst void pubs i see regularly). Trinity can delete them with the finger of doom, that nobody seems to know about ("LOL UR N00B BAD TRINTEA NO HAS DPS"). Some CC frames can disable them.

      Except that the "finger of doom" as you call it no longer exists, at least according to the current update notes...

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    • 71.158.167.91 wrote:
      Rhionhi wrote:
      199.168.151.34 wrote:

      Rhionhi wrote:

      This is not really about spy (that said it is very easy to do corpus spy flawlessly with some frames), it is about the lv80-100 bursas in sorties. The ones that oneshot basically anything and have about half a million HP + massive armor + flat damage reduction.

      Probably the strongest enemies in the game right now, they are outright absurd.

      This is exactly the point I was trying to make about the current state of Bursa and Sortie missions.
      The current sortie Intercept mission is just absurd. Multiple Bursa spawn right at the start and there just simply is no killing them. They regenerate faster than you can kill them and really do one shot an area. If they don't one shot you they spam their knockdown that once you go down you aren't getting back up again.

      This isn't about cake walking the mission it's about being able to do it at all.

      You can kill them, it just takes a rather specific sort of team (most sortie pubs are extremely bad for some reason, surpassing the worst void pubs i see regularly). Trinity can delete them with the finger of doom, that nobody seems to know about ("LOL UR N00B BAD TRINTEA NO HAS DPS"). Some CC frames can disable them.
      Except that the "finger of doom" as you call it no longer exists, at least according to the current update notes...


      Er, what? since when?

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    • the problem with bursas is that they make magnetic/toxin weapons useless

      it's all corrosive all day now, I don't even care to switch to magnetic/toxin, cause I dont' even have trouble with anything that needs to be killed with mag/toxic... osprey and bursas are the real problem

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    • the first time i found out about these guys was in a locked down area with two denails gaurding the console i needed to hack and a drover chasing me. just for context this was a small area with nowhere i could run to actually get out of range of there knockdown. so although they are not bad i feel like they should only be able to spawn one or two at a time.

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    • Some of You forget, that not always one wants to carry a full nuke arsenal, and enemies like this, make some frames obsolete. Useless. Bursas and ~100 lvl Juggie, they are no fun at all. Making something immune, is not making it hard to beat. It's just pure game cheat, like on those arcade fighting games with end bosses ;)

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    • Inaros?

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    • 95.160.126.194 wrote:
      Some of You forget, that not always one wants to carry a full nuke arsenal, and enemies like this, make some frames obsolete. Useless. Bursas and ~100 lvl Juggie, they are no fun at all. Making something immune, is not making it hard to beat. It's just pure game cheat, like on those arcade fighting games with end bosses ;)

      lv100 juggernaut gets harder the more bad players you have.

      It is exceptionally easy to solo, just get high ground with a little cover and shoot it whenever it opens, a few seconds of fire from a decent weapon can kill it when it is vulnerable.

      When you have 3 idiots running around on the ground, making it dash, throw clouds and generally be unpredictable (or worse, stunlocking it so it never opens), it gets far harder.

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    • Try hitting them with Mag bullet attractor, and let the bullets fly. 

      Try using a different focus (if you have multiples)

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    • A few days ago I was running a Corpus defense sortie 3 and a the end wave 4 bursas appeared.

      I used the Naramon focus on them it was really fun look at them wreck the hell out of their companion and finish off the survivor with the Redeemer in his back.

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    • There are definitely a lot of ways to cheese Bursas just as they cheese us but it can't really be the goal that everyone's running around with at least one of those things all the time because one type of enemy dictates more what you bring than the rest of an entire faction.

      It's even worse for newer players with lesser options since the Bursas' poorly implemented starting point stats-wise won't let you really play the way you want.

      While I'm totally for new ways to challenge us and give us reasons to change our loadouts to make the whole preparation more complex, it shouldn't do so only by bringing in more bad scaled aspects like their totally excessive armor. In its current state, it's really doing the opposite and makes the whole faction based modding more one-dimensional. Corrosive Projection is now the best Aura for every faction albeit only affecting a small minority of enemies in half of them. As a damage type, Corrosive is de facto mandatory everywhere now, too unless you're bringing four times CP but in that case you won the cheese game already anyways.

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    • I have played for about a year, my gear is still bad, I do not have any prime item, I prefer melee attacks, my best weapon is probably the Karak. No matter what I do, everyone else seems to be so much more deadly than me, even with worse weapons, frames, mr and so on. This does not usually trouble me too much, I just stick to the planets I can actually complete missions on.

      Now, there was this Corpus mission on Earth or lower, exterminate or something similar. I was targeted from spawning, and did not manage to kill many Corpus at all before I heard "The alarms have triggered a Bursa." I was not too worried. The Bursa appeared a few seconds later. Stuns. Stuns, damage and no damage taken was everything I could notice. Running away? Sure, I tried, and it worked - the Bursa slowly lost it's health. About a tenth or slightly less, that is. Then Lotus announced the arrival of the second Bursa. And all of a sudden it became very difficult to dodge the stuns of them both. After 10-15 sec, I died. Well, I revived. Less than five seconds later I heard about the third incoming Bursa. I aborted the mission. I had no knowledge of this new mob sufficient to make difference enough to in any way kill them. I could impossibly hack any console in the middle of all this. It would mean death.

      This was the second time I heard about them. In the other mission, though, it was dealt with by my sibling, in another area of the map. I do think I could handle one, with a lot of time, but as soon as more would spawn, the missions would become impossible for me.

      I really do not think enemies should spawn like that in missions around level eight. The changes I would personally suggest is a max spawn of two at a time, less vigilance from them - that is, to not show up that quickly - and slightly reduced stats. If I had any chance to complete the mission and kill the first Bursa, this might have been a good change for me, but as it is now, it is far too vaguely restricted. I do not mind challenges every now and then. What I do mind is missions I have no chance of getting to the third room in. Missions I cannot possibly complete no matter what I would have done. Missions like the one I told you about.

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    • 83.255.65.91 wrote:

      I have played for about a year, my gear is still bad, I do not have any prime item, I prefer melee attacks, my best weapon is probably the Karak. No matter what I do, everyone else seems to be so much more deadly than me, even with worse weapons, frames, mr and so on. This does not usually trouble me too much, I just stick to the planets I can actually complete missions on.

      Now, there was this Corpus mission on Earth or lower, exterminate or something similar. I was targeted from spawning, and did not manage to kill many Corpus at all before I heard "The alarms have triggered a Bursa." I was not too worried. The Bursa appeared a few seconds later. Stuns. Stuns, damage and no damage taken was everything I could notice. Running away? Sure, I tried, and it worked - the Bursa slowly lost it's health. About a tenth or slightly less, that is. Then Lotus announced the arrival of the second Bursa. And all of a sudden it became very difficult to dodge the stuns of them both. After 10-15 sec, I died. Well, I revived. Less than five seconds later I heard about the third incoming Bursa. I aborted the mission. I had no knowledge of this new mob sufficient to make difference enough to in any way kill them. I could impossibly hack any console in the middle of all this. It would mean death.

      This was the second time I heard about them. In the other mission, though, it was dealt with by my sibling, in another area of the map. I do think I could handle one, with a lot of time, but as soon as more would spawn, the missions would become impossible for me.

      I really do not think enemies should spawn like that in missions around level eight. The changes I would personally suggest is a max spawn of two at a time, less vigilance from them - that is, to not show up that quickly - and slightly reduced stats. If I had any chance to complete the mission and kill the first Bursa, this might have been a good change for me, but as it is now, it is far too vaguely restricted. I do not mind challenges every now and then. What I do mind is missions I have no chance of getting to the third room in. Missions I cannot possibly complete no matter what I would have done. Missions like the one I told you about.


      I think the problem is something other than the bursas.. a low-level bursa is a pretty big joke. I think the problem is your mods are really bad. Melee vs bursa is also suicide unless you have shadow step or strong defensive abilities.

      Oh, and the hotfix today nerfed them a lot, should be less wailing from people that cant flank them anymore.

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    • Their starting point stats-wise was huge even on lower levels. Missions on that level should not go from totally afk mode to impossible even if one's not well geared. On lvl1, a Bursa had 40% more EHP than a lvl8 Corrupted Heavy Gunner Leech Eximus (a unit you'd never meet on such low levels). So, it has nothing to do with the inability to flank if you're just doing no damage at all. But yeah, I hope it's alright now.

      Lvl100 Isolators still like to occasionally snipe with their shotgun, just got one-shotted from 40 meters away in the Simulacrum :D

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    • Rngd444 wrote:
      Their starting point stats-wise was huge even on lower levels. Missions on that level should not go from totally afk mode to impossible even if one's not well geared. On lvl1, a Bursa had 40% more EHP than a lvl8 Corrupted Heavy Gunner Leech Eximus (a unit you'd never meet on such low levels). So, it has nothing to do with the inability to flank if you're just doing no damage at all. But yeah, I hope it's alright now.

      Lvl100 Isolators still like to occasionally snipe with their shotgun, just got one-shotted from 40 meters away in the Simulacrum :D

      40% more ehp than a lv8 eximus.. so.. it takes 4 seconds of fire from an unpotatoed low-rank gun instead of 2? The main issue was the frontal damage reduction being so high, and solo players cant get behind them to do any damage.


      Lv100 anything usually oneshots you. It is not meant to be easy.

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    • You must be kidding, especially after the other guy gave his long explanation about how slowly they lost health. Since they didn't take any damage at the front until the recent update, they wouldn't have been injured at all if that was his main issue.

      Those percentages were meant to illustrate their tankiness. You were even calling them outright absurd yourself. Not sure why everyone who might've had a problem with them is suddenly wailing.

      You don't have to tell me what the consequences of level scaling are, it was more meant as a funny note since a shotgun is usually not meant to be used like that. But sure, go ahead and defend silly mechanics that weren't even seriously disputed.


      And because you are so serious about this stuff, here a real world example: a lvl10 Bursa had 17367 EHP (including 3858 shield) before the latest hotfix, this may or may not represent your "unpotatoed low-rank gun". I particularly chose it because the Lone Tenno was using it as well. In my opinion, the mods are more than optimistic for playing lvl10 content (as well as conveniently bringing the right element for this enemy alone). 1097 DPS vs Shield and 1570 DPS vs Ferrite, 2.8k and roughly 4k for one magazine respectively. You need almost one and a half magazines for the shield alone, and more than three for the health. That's over 20 seconds of non-stop firing and reloading. And now consider that every additional Bursa will gain three more levels and you get a real understanding of the problem.

      Sometimes it's just not necessary to talk stuff down, just as it was not necessary for me to write this crap. But maybe it helps you to understand how big of a deal they really were for newer players.

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    • Except you totally ignored armor mitigation, damage bonuses, and the giant weak spot they have.

      That build should be able to kill a lv10 bursa in half a magazine.

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    • Right. Armor mitigation. A lot of players do not even have any means to do stuff like that for a lot longer. The 7.5% status won't do anything (2.3% to proc Corrosive or on every 43rd shot). You said solo players weren't able to get behind them, yet you want to include weakspots in an already very favorable calculation? Are you even trying. To see the other perspective that is. You might want to give a reasonable example instead of continuing to throw those far-fetched numbers around.

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    • Rngd444 wrote:
      Right. Armor mitigation. A lot of players do not even have any means to do stuff like that for a lot longer. The 7.5% status won't do anything (2.3% to proc Corrosive or on every 43rd shot). You said solo players weren't able to get behind them, yet you want to include weakspots in an already very favorable calculation? Are you even trying. To see the other perspective that is. You might want to give a reasonable example instead of continuing to throw those far-fetched numbers around.

      Corrosive has 75% armor ignore vs ferrite, plus 75% bonus damage. I know most people have no idea how damage actually works, but fact-check before you go on a rant about it. Damage 2.0

      Oh, and you can "get around" them by knocking them down quite easily. Plus their turning speed was just reduced.

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    • Did you actually check the example I gave? Of course, I included the damage bonus, why else would I have two different DPS values in my post vs Shield and vs Ferrite. You should really try to read properly before you try to lecture people. And while you're at it, you should actually give those numbers a try: the actual damage modifier for Corrosive in this particular case is 1.287 (not considering shields).

      Oh, now it is easy to get around them? Perhaps you should stick to one opinion over the course of 24 hours; it might help with your credibility. And if you really didn't get it by now: We're still talking about their state before the nerf.

      If those half-assed attempts are everything you got, you should really stop trying. Stating unrelated redunancies won't get you anywhere but to embarrass yourself.

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    • ..1.287? Where are you getting that?

      Corrosive has a 1.75 modifier against bursa ferrite+robotic health, and ignores 75% of their armor (after counting status procs). It is as simple as that. Robotic health has no modifiers to corrosive damage at all.

      Just read the formulas on the damage 2.0 page. it is very simple.

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    • Well, as you can see, I actually calculated it in contrast to you.

      Bursa Armor before the nerf at lvl10: 350 * (1 + 91.75 * 0.005) = 432

      DM = 1.75 / (1 + 432 * 0.25 / 300) = 1.287

      Simple as that. Did you ever use that stuff or do you only send it ahead to scare people away? The 75% ignored armor is already included in said multiplier. That's how it works.

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    • Rngd444 wrote:
      Well, as you can see, I actually calculated it in contrast to you.

      Bursa Armor before the nerf at lvl10: 350 * (1 + 91.75 * 0.005) = 432

      DM = 1.75 / (1 + 432 * 0.25 / 300) = 1.287

      Simple as that. Did you ever use that stuff or do you only send it ahead to scare people away? The 75% ignored armor is already included in said multiplier. That's how it works.

      Good to see you actually know what you are talking about.. But you just sort of proved your original point invalid. I hope it all makes sense now, thanks.

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    • I don't want to be that guy but how so? My original point that they weren't implemented well and were too strong on lower levels still stands, even though the numbers were off. I did the mistake of using Warframe Builder's values to sketch the scenario. Still more valid than your claims though, I was off a factor 2.5 and you 4 (five and half a magazine respectively).

      I still find it very paradox we had this argument in the first place since they were, in my opinion, rightfully nerfed. And since you called them absurd yourself as I already stated before. And if DE nerfing them is no good indication (which really isn't in most cases, I have to admit), then all the people who had trouble in low level content should really have some weight since if new players can't play that content, then for whom is it actually designed?

      Don't get me wrong, I like your posts and respect your opinion. I just couldn't see the reasoning behind it this time.

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    • 14.192.147.74 wrote:
      I don't get why people are making a fuss about Bursas. I mean, fine, they can one-hit weaker frames but all the more to add a challenge to the game. So far, it has been pretty easy in all levels. Now something comes up that make players sweat, they start ranting against it. I personally like the addition. Finally something that can actually hurt you, apart from the Bosses (some of them).

      Must not have fought any yet.. They aren't a challenge, they're just straight up BS. When they were introduced, fine, fight them in groups or solo when only one spawns. But now when they are pretty common enemies since Corpus love turning alarms on and they haven't been altered to reflect that, it just makes me not wanna play Corpus missions anymore until they are fixed.

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    • 66.67.69.49 wrote:
      14.192.147.74 wrote:
      I don't get why people are making a fuss about Bursas. I mean, fine, they can one-hit weaker frames but all the more to add a challenge to the game. So far, it has been pretty easy in all levels. Now something comes up that make players sweat, they start ranting against it. I personally like the addition. Finally something that can actually hurt you, apart from the Bosses (some of them).
      Must not have fought any yet.. They aren't a challenge, they're just straight up BS. When they were introduced, fine, fight them in groups or solo when only one spawns. But now when they are pretty common enemies since Corpus love turning alarms on and they haven't been altered to reflect that, it just makes me not wanna play Corpus missions anymore until they are fixed.

      They got a huge nerf weeks ago and are not even a threat anymore.

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    • Rhionhi wrote:

      They got a huge nerf weeks ago and are not even a threat anymore.

      I play on console, we won't have that for a while most likely

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    • One of a handful of reasons why I'd usually prefer to fight against the Grineer more when leveling new gear or using anything not named Valkyr.

      I have to admit I'm only at MR6 and tend to play solo due to the piss-poor connection quality where I'm living, but my chances of winning against an occasional Drover or Denial is pretty good considering the horribly off-meta gear that I bring (weak Corrosive or none at all, some of which deal Slash or Puncture and not Impact). Until about the fourth spawn I can handle them pretty okay-ish even with a level 27 Oberon which I'm using right now.

      Then out of nowhere a butthurt Isolator appears and the rest of the mission either goes down the crapper, or I emerge barely victorious due to some unexpected fuck-up on the AI's part. Even Valkyr does not cut it sometimes due to the sticky nulls which the Isolator just loves to camp around, combining that with Valkyr's wafer-thin shields and the Isolator's habit of using its shotgun as a sniper rifle can make for some pretty frustrating deaths and failures. I'd like to emphasise that my beef is only with the Isolator and not the other two. It's as if DE just decided to blend together the most annoying attack types you can think of into an enemy and giving it massive amounts of frontal armor and shields while they're at it.

      Now let me get this out of the way: I have yet to encounter the stronger enemy types of the other factions yet. I've just unlocked Eris, which I have barely even looked at, I don't play Void very much due to my bad luck with key drops giving me the modes I'm not good at (e.g. Interception), have only beaten (encountered) Shadow Stalker once outside of The Second Dream, and have practically encountered zero assassins/death squads up to this point. My current and potential kit is also probably not up-to-par to take on any of them due to the lack of crucial mods, but I can at least make some tangible changes to the situation at hand. Bursas of any flavor are just too common an enemy type of such power, thus presenting a massive difficulty spike to players who are relatively new like I or ones that are grinding aff for their new weapons/frames.

      The only difference I can (usually) make when fighting Isolators is how rapidly my revive counter goes down from an absurdly long-ranged shotgun snipe or knockdown spam. I'm not going to hate this game over a mere entity I see within it, but I don't particularly like it either when another Bursa of a higher level spawns while I'm busy wailing at an Isolator and both of them just casually wallop me to the ground. An extended timer, unit limit or tweaked spawn mechanic would be much appreciated.

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    • no, fuck you.

      l2p please, bursas are easy.

      i hope you'll rot and face eternal damnation in the fiery depths of hell

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    • GFreeman wrote:
      (weak Corrosive or none at all, some of which deal Slash or Puncture and not Impact).

      The strange thing is, you actually want to use Corrosive against Bursas and Puncture would usually be good against them or other robotic enemies as well if there were no shields involved :/

      The sad part of all the stuff wrong with Isolators is that Bursas were already nerfed almost a month ago and it's rather unlikely DE will change them again. Yet even after the nerf, they're the strongest units in the game. Death Squads are all pretty lackluster, although the Shadow Stalker can be a pain due to his dynamic damage reductions.

      The only real advice I can give you is to try to deactivate the alarms as quick as possible, preferably before they even spawn. If you have trouble to hack while they're already there, you might want to get the Landing Craft Foundry Segment to craft Air Support Charges. With the standard Landing Craft, they let you deactivate any alarms or lockdowns and freeze the timer in Spy Vaults or Rescue missions. Be aware of the ten minute cooldown, though.

      As Oberon, you want to try to get Radiation procs on them with your first ability, so they won't swarm you as much. Other Frames might have an easier time dealing with them; anything with crowd control can help a lot. This is overall informative and should be pretty accurate on whether or not a cc ability works on them.

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    • Rngd444 wrote:
      GFreeman wrote:
      (weak Corrosive or none at all, some of which deal Slash or Puncture and not Impact).
      The strange thing is, you actually want to use Corrosive against Bursas and Puncture would usually be good against them or other robotic enemies as well if there were no shields involved :/

      The sad part of all the stuff wrong with Isolators is that Bursas were already nerfed almost a month ago and it's rather unlikely DE will change them again. Yet even after the nerf, they're the strongest units in the game. Death Squads are all pretty lackluster, although the Shadow Stalker can be a pain due to his dynamic damage reductions.

      The only real advice I can give you is to try to deactivate the alarms as quick as possible, preferably before they even spawn. If you have trouble to hack while they're already there, you might want to get the Landing Craft Foundry Segment to craft Air Support Charges. With the standard Landing Craft, they let you deactivate any alarms or lockdowns and freeze the timer in Spy Vaults or Rescue missions. Be aware of the ten minute cooldown, though.

      As Oberon, you want to try to get Radiation procs on them with your first ability, so they won't swarm you as much. Other Frames might have an easier time dealing with them; anything with crowd control can help a lot. This is overall informative and should be pretty accurate on whether or not a cc ability works on them.

      Very informative indeed, and you have my thanks.

      It's usually not the alarms that ruin my day though, it's the fact that some Alerts taking place in Corpus tilesets just so happen to have pre-spawned Bursas somewhere down the road that you are bound to bump into, for no apparent reason whatsoever. I've just had an experience where the alert was going on fine without any alarms rung, but as soon as I exit an elevator I ran into a Drover, and more of them just keep popping up on their own afterwards. If it's because of an alarm, then I'll make damn sure to turn it off as soon as the Lotus bugs me about it, but I got no indication that one time and I could not really hack anything to turn off their spawn because technically no alarm sounded.

      Eventually I failed the mission at 98/99 kills at the hands of a level 48 Isolator.

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    • Whenever I see someone complain that Bursas are too spongy, I can't help but wonder if they know you can deal extreme amounts of damage to them by shooting the panel on their back...

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    • 132.215.97.25 wrote:
      Whenever I see someone complain that Bursas are too spongy, I can't help but wonder if they know you can deal extreme amounts of damage to them by shooting the panel on their back...

      Whenever I see someone arguing that shooting the panels on their backs will deal extreme amounts of damage. I can't help but wonder if they know how frustrating it can be to actually get behind the Bursas to actually shoot anything before they pull off a 360 and wallop you into the ground with their CC slams.

      Or just nonchalantly blasting you in the face with its (probable) Detron if it's an Isolator, which can kill you instantly.

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    • People tend to side with bad mechanics instead of trying to empathize with new players which have real struggles because of design flaws. They don't even care enough to understand that there are actual bugs involved - like the non-existing alarms you described earlier - so, just ignore them.

      Those alarms happen more often in alerts; overall they seem to "freak out" more on those missions... Sadly, there's not much one can do about it if killing is the objective. Especially since their level increases with every new spawn (totally thoughtless implemented "mechanic" right there).

      May I ask what Frames you have available? Out of the three starting ones, Mag would obviously be quite awesome against Corpus in general and Bullet Attractor really helps with Bursas. Excalibur can blind them and is able to do a good bunch of damage with Exalted Blade. I'm not sure how well Volt's abilities can stun them; might not differ that much in comparison to what Oberon can do. It sure is a bummer not to be able to play what you want, especially early on, but it can help a lot in this case.

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    • My fave build for taking on Bursa is.......




      the space bar.

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    • Rngd444 wrote:
      People tend to side with bad mechanics instead of trying to empathize with new players which have real struggles because of design flaws. They don't even care enough to understand that there are actual bugs involved - like the non-existing alarms you described earlier - so, just ignore them.

      Those alarms happen more often in alerts; overall they seem to "freak out" more on those missions... Sadly, there's not much one can do about it if killing is the objective. Especially since their level increases with every new spawn (totally thoughtless implemented "mechanic" right there).

      May I ask what Frames you have available? Out of the three starting ones, Mag would obviously be quite awesome against Corpus in general and Bullet Attractor really helps with Bursas. Excalibur can blind them and is able to do a good bunch of damage with Exalted Blade. I'm not sure how well Volt's abilities can stun them; might not differ that much in comparison to what Oberon can do. It sure is a bummer not to be able to play what you want, especially early on, but it can help a lot in this case.

      My arsenal is pretty limited, but I do have several maxed ranked and potatoed ones such as Nezha, Volt, Valkyr and Zephyr, no Formas yet. Valkyr is generally my go-to-panic button when I'm expected to take a lot of damage (nightmares, any planet past Phobos, Towers, etc...) and/or be facing a tough boss.

      I've been working on Oberon (28, potatoed and no Forma) for a while now and will be shifting towards Excalibur (17, potatoed and no Forma) soon.

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    • MagFanSoFar wrote:
      My fave build for taking on Bursa is.......




      the space bar.

      Hue hue. Not enough ignorance, enhance please.


      GFreeman wrote: My arsenal is pretty limited, but I do have several maxed ranked and potatoed ones such as Nezha, Volt, Valkyr and Zephyr, no Formas yet. Valkyr is generally my go-to-panic button when I'm expected to take a lot of damage (nightmares, any planet past Phobos, Towers, etc...) and/or be facing a tough boss.

      I've been working on Oberon (28, potatoed and no Forma) for a while now and will be shifting towards Excalibur (17, potatoed and no Forma) soon.

      Yeah, Valkyr is definitely the safest alternative from your arsenal and sadly, Excalibur would be the only one with a hard cc that works well against them. However, Fire procs in general and Nezha's Fire Walker seem to be quite capable of stunning them; and you get Warding Halo's cc immunity as a bonus (until an Isolator dispels it).
      Do you have Handspring by any chance? That mod can help a lot, especially if there are multiple Bursas spamming shockwaves in which case simply jumping doesn't work well all the time.

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    • When i first encounter a Bursa i find them horrible, nearly invincible because they were hard, but since a week ago i have gone to pluto exca for orokin key and i find them preatty easy know :

      Just learn to jump theyre knockdown was for me a big help.

      After that my Frost Freeze was really helpful (the zhuge with potatoe nd the good mod whipe them easyly, even my scindo p cut them like cake)

      And now i have my Hek just need a jump and a shot and i kill them (two or 3 shot for the lv 80 in sortie)

      I am agree taht they are hard, need little rework on it but they are not so hard as other mod, they are just different than the other just-need-to-slash-their-face-mobs, because almost all ennemy ine the game doesn't recquire skill (big word for this) to kill : infested just go to cac or fire, Grineer same, All other corpus same here. I find interesting that DE with Maniac (where you must tempo and have good reflexe to shot them), juggernaut (dodge and shot when vulnerable) and Bursas (dodge Aoe and shot in the back) have create monster with more skill need to kill and even here some frame can just go like barbarian on them (Yeah hello here Valkyr).

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    • GFreeman wrote: My arsenal is pretty limited, but I do have several maxed ranked and potatoed ones such as Nezha, Volt, Valkyr and Zephyr, no Formas yet. Valkyr is generally my go-to-panic button when I'm expected to take a lot of damage (nightmares, any planet past Phobos, Towers, etc...) and/or be facing a tough boss.

      I've been working on Oberon (28, potatoed and no Forma) for a while now and will be shifting towards Excalibur (17, potatoed and no Forma) soon.

      Yeah, Valkyr is definitely the safest alternative from your arsenal and sadly, Excalibur would be the only one with a hard cc that works well against them. However, Fire procs in general and Nezha's Fire Walker seem to be quite capable of stunning them; and you get Warding Halo's cc immunity as a bonus (until an Isolator dispels it).
      Do you have Handspring by any chance? That mod can help a lot, especially if there are multiple Bursas spamming shockwaves in which case simply jumping doesn't work well all the time.

      No I don't, unfortunately, though I'm planning on grinding it out of the Jackal or getting some cores to transmute it. I'm fairly unlucky when it comes to RNG-related stuff. I do have a reasonably-upgraded Power Drift Exilus though.

      Right now I'm experimenting with Nezha fitted with Maglev and/or Rush to see if I can effectively sprint/slide my way to the other side to target the panels while keeping to a reasonably safe distance. Zephyr can be surprisingly effective at times due to her long "flight" distance, which is not affected by the CC slam and something even Isolators cannot stop with a null. I do have a Penta that I've yet to potato or even use, but seeing as it also deals Impact b Impact damage I might give it a shot.

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    • Generally, farming things specifically tends to be pretty exhausting. I could give you one if you want.

      Nezha with a slide build is awesome, in any scenario. Maglev can be a bit too much too handle at first - the reason why I preferred Cunning Drift for a long time - but it works well once you get the hang of it. By the way, using normal (double) jumps instead of bullet jumps while sliding can give you a lot of momentum.

      You reminded me that I haven't played Zephyr in a long time. Nezha pretty much took over the "fast Frame" slot from her.
      In my opinion, the Penta lacks damage. It's enough to kill yourself but later on, the enemies might just shrug it off. In the end, it all comes down to fun, though.


      @Lone Tenno: I welcome the diversity those new types of enemies bring; it's just that they overdo it most of the time. It would be much more fun to have several (perhaps old) enemies changed to have more challenging mechanics instead of squeezing all those things into Bursas. Because the results can only be stuff like shotguns used as one-shot snipers and an overall imbalance compared to the rest of the content.
      It's their starting point in stats and damage and their spammy nature that still put new players off. The current state of scaling will do its "job" and boost them enough for higher levels where it's usually cheese vs cheese anyway.

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    • I feel like just dropping the elitist card and saying I've never had a problem with bursa's at any level (including lvl 150+'s or any sortie mission). I enjoy the unique approach required to killing them, but I get annoyed sometimes at their inconsistency towards cc.

      At the end of the day, the moto really is true: "Ninja's play free" everybody else needs to man up <3

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    • Yup, that's better. But you sure can do more. It must take a lot of will power for an actual attempt to understand what the problems for newer players are. Damn, that kid in the vid is quite retarded.

      Is it really that hard to understand that jumping doesn't help much if you get one-shotted from quite some distance away. Careful now, because you might have to put yourself in a position where you do not own highly leveled Hp mods and have no Frost (Prime) or another hard cc Frame available to cheese them as hard as possible. Making a useless vid with lvl15 Bursas doesn't change their level increase mechanism.


      Edit: Well, I have no problems myself as well. But the still existing discrepancy between their strength and that of the other enemies is more prevalent on lower levels which is the cause of the mentioned problems for newer players. That and inconsistencies / bugged alarms.

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    • I never equip endurance mods unless the build involves taking damage on purpose (rage, equilibrium, etc.). So no, I don't think I'd categorize my experience as being buffered by high end mods.

      I also use vectis way too much to be healthy (http://puu.sh/o8UmY.png), so I think it's pretty fair to say that I use a lot of skill/mechanics based gameplay, not raw gimmicks (even though I love theory crafting + using them as well). Normally I'm cruising around with a nova not using any abilities or endurance mods at all >.>

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    • Brizingr5 wrote:
      I feel like just dropping the elitist card and saying I've never had a problem with bursa's at any level (including lvl 150+'s or any sortie mission). I enjoy the unique approach required to killing them, but I get annoyed sometimes at their inconsistency towards cc.

      At the end of the day, the moto really is true: "Ninja's play free" everybody else needs to man up <3

      That is a brilliant way to put it.

      @Rngd444 

      As for new players struggling against Bursa's. Im new. I found that video after I ran into them, and didnt struggle much. First time I ran into one. It was difficult, and it killed me. So after reviving, i jumped and ran away. It really only took seconds to understand that if I cant kill it instantly, and needed to understand it better to kill it. I should run away from it and avoid it. I asked my clan mates about the Bursa. They said look at the wiki. I came here, and found out about Bursa's. I checked youtube and found that video. I now have zero problems with Bursa, and regard them as a threat only when I have to scan the stupid things. But Im grinding out a Helios, so that problem has a limited lifespan. 

      They really are not hard to deal with at first unless you go and get stubborn and try to take them on head to head. They were designed to take advantage of that mentality. This game would be super boring if all you had to do was shoot at it till it died. Its the main reason I have been playing this game for a month now, which is 3 weeks longer than I commonly play MMOs. But thats just me. I appreciate the variety. 

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    • The upper part of my post (except for the edit) was a badly timed late response to MagFanSoFar's post with the linked video in which we see a Valkyr with at least a R9 Vitality and a Frost Prime with a R9 Redirection, I presume.

      I would never argue anyone's skill (nice stats, by the way) or preferences and that's actually one of the points of this whole thing: one shouldn't be forced into using certain Frames, weapons or playstyles early on because the difficulty ramps up way too fast and the given enemies feel disconnected compared to the rest of that level's content.
      If you're in the position of just learning the game and barely having knowledge about elemental weaknesses and a Bursa spawns, and another one, and so on, and suddenly you're facing a pretty overleveled enemy you didn't ask for (GFreeman said earlier he had a lvl48 Bursa he couldn't beat at the end of an alert where the alarms weren't deactivatable), then the possibility that it's not the player's "fault" or his lack of skill thereof but a not correctly adjusted addition to the game might be the conclusion.

      If the non-deactivatable alarm in a normal alert mission is wanted or not, is a whole other story. Given a recent Rescue Sortie that switched to Exterminate the moment one entered the mission, I'd argue there are quite some bugs involved in those processes, though.


      Edit: Badly timed again :P
      As seen in the mentioned example, the experiences of players differ by a lot. If that inconsistency is created due to bugs in the spawning mechanic alone or other things is hard to tell.

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    • I started playing again after 2 months of not touching the game. Saw Dead Eye alert, played it and instantly reminded why i left for a while.


      I'm in university dorm, Steam is blocked for whatever stupid reason, but Warframe can be launched but can only play solo. I can handle a Bursa, no problem. They are fun to fight once in a while. I had an extermination mission in Phobos, triggered an alarm. A Bursa spawned before i had the time to reach a terminal. Yeah ok, no problem. Killed it, hacked it yada yada. 

      Then another one spawns. This happened before so i didn't think much of it. At 1/4 health, another one spawns.

      Okay, really? Fucking, really? Then 3 or 4 more spawned before i can finish the other. It's hard enough to navigate this bloody tile and find a terminal, i don't need 3 fucking bursas pounding my ass while resetting the alarm. 

      What is supposed to be a fun mini-boss fight turned out to be a very tiring and frustrating cheap enemy. The design is fine, mostly (fucking knockdown is broken as fuck). It's the spawn-fucking-rate and mechanism that is utterly broken. 

      Oh right, i did the Dead Eye alert, excavation in Venus, fucking Venus, and these guys keeps respawning without warning. I absolutely loathe Excavation missions and Corpus (fuck MOA, just a personal taste). This is not in anyway fun. It's just plain frustrating and tiring and i ended up screaming a bit before i knew it.

      Just writing this makes me mad 

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    • 103.233.100.250 wrote:
      I started playing again after 2 months of not touching the game. Saw Dead Eye alert, played it and instantly reminded why i left for a while.


      I'm in university dorm, Steam is blocked for whatever stupid reason, but Warframe can be launched but can only play solo. I can handle a Bursa, no problem. They are fun to fight once in a while. I had an extermination mission in Phobos, triggered an alarm. A Bursa spawned before i had the time to reach a terminal. Yeah ok, no problem. Killed it, hacked it yada yada. 

      Then another one spawns. This happened before so i didn't think much of it. At 1/4 health, another one spawns.

      Okay, really? Fucking, really? Then 3 or 4 more spawned before i can finish the other. It's hard enough to navigate this bloody tile and find a terminal, i don't need 3 fucking bursas pounding my ass while resetting the alarm. 

      What is supposed to be a fun mini-boss fight turned out to be a very tiring and frustrating cheap enemy. The design is fine, mostly (fucking knockdown is broken as fuck). It's the spawn-fucking-rate and mechanism that is utterly broken. 

      Oh right, i did the Dead Eye alert, excavation in Venus, fucking Venus, and these guys keeps respawning without warning. I absolutely loathe Excavation missions and Corpus (fuck MOA, just a personal taste). This is not in anyway fun. It's just plain frustrating and tiring and i ended up screaming a bit before i knew it.

      Just writing this makes me mad 

      It just sounds like you should not be playing this game..

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    • That or there actually might be something wrong with the spawn mechanic sometimes. I'm always amazed that the possibility for something being broken in Warframe, which isn't really a bug-free game by any means, seems to be outright absurd for so many people. I didn't experience the described things often but I know what he's talking about. Mostly limited to "special" missions; alerts, dailies and the like.

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    • Syndicate missions are also almost unplayable now too thanks to bursas! They really just need to place a hard limit on how many of these fuckers can spawn during any given mission, because having 8 gangbang my ass at the sam time on a Corpus Excavation mission for Steel Meridian isn't any fun and turns something that should take 2-3 full excavators into a hellish hour long run aound the entire map, slowly trickling up to 500 cryotic to extract in small numbers like 50

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    • Bursas are heavily nerfed, if they are still giving anyone issues, the problem is the player, not the mob.

      Check your gear/mod choices, something is wrong with them.

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    • Heavily nerfed or not they still pose a massive difficulty spike to newer players who have yet to procure the proper gear, mods and frames to deal with them. In regular Corpus missions they are not much of a problem because you can just hack an alarm panel to prevent them from spawning, which a player of any caliber could do, but in endless defenses and excavations they are almost guaranteed to appear and chances are beginners will not be able to defeat them without dying over and over again.

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    • Rhionhi wrote:
      Bursas are heavily nerfed, if they are still giving anyone issues, the problem is the player, not the mob. Check your gear/mod choices, something is wrong with them.

      Still ignoring arguments while stating redundant and non-helpful things? I was almost amused to see you back stating the same stuff you did before during our "discussion".

      It must be really hard to comprehend that as a new player, there aren't many choices to make in relation to mods or even Frames and weapons.

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    • Rngd444 wrote:
      Rhionhi wrote:
      Bursas are heavily nerfed, if they are still giving anyone issues, the problem is the player, not the mob. Check your gear/mod choices, something is wrong with them.

      Still ignoring arguments while stating redundant and non-helpful things? I was almost amused to see you back stating the same stuff you did before during our "discussion".

      It must be really hard to comprehend that as a new player, there aren't many choices to make in relation to mods or even Frames and weapons.

      Bursas were pure hell when I was at around MR4 and 5. Most useful gear were still level-locked by then and the more decent ones usually require Formas to craft, which are pretty much out of reach for us when we were just starting.

      It was only around MR6 that I gained my second frame and it was Zephyr, which was not in any way enough to solo a Bursa of any kind (my starter was Volt). It got better when I finished building Valkyr, though.

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    • GFreeman wrote:
      Rngd444 wrote:
      Rhionhi wrote:
      Bursas are heavily nerfed, if they are still giving anyone issues, the problem is the player, not the mob. Check your gear/mod choices, something is wrong with them.
      Still ignoring arguments while stating redundant and non-helpful things? I was almost amused to see you back stating the same stuff you did before during our "discussion".

      It must be really hard to comprehend that as a new player, there aren't many choices to make in relation to mods or even Frames and weapons.

      Bursas were pure hell when I was at around MR4 and 5. Most useful gear were still level-locked by then and the more decent ones usually require Formas to craft, which are pretty much out of reach for us when we were just starting.

      It was only around MR6 that I gained my second frame and it was Zephyr, which was not in any way enough to solo a Bursa of any kind (my starter was Volt). It got better when I finished building Valkyr, though.

      I agree bursas are really annoying if you dont know how to kill them yet.. but so are manics. They should be level-locked like manics (lv15 and up) or juggernauts (lv30-something?)

      Zephyr is by no way unable to handle bursas, she if effectively immune to anything they could do (extends to corpus in general), you are just not using her abilities effectively. Keeps turbulence up when threatened, jump over them and divebomb or slam to stun them.

      As far as weapons, there are tons of good ones you can get at rank 2-4. Just ask in chat and ignore anyone that cries about boltor prime. Hek, Tigris, Vectis, Rubico are all easy to make and hit like a ballistic whale.

      More likely you just have the wrong elemental combinationsthis can cripple your damage, due to how big the modifiers are. Proper combinations do about 3-5 times the damage as bad ones at low level, and it gets even higher as enemies get more armor.

      Bursas have a different armor type than other corpus (who usually have no armor), which can be a bit confusing if you are looking at old guides or following usual "anti-corpus" guidelines  (magnetic is shit, just dont). It is always a good idea to have a corrosive (electric+toxin) weapon somewhere in your loadout, as every faction has strong mobs vulnerable to it.

      If you are on PC and are missing any elemental mods, i can give you spares for free, except for the tethra's doom set.

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    • Rhionhi wrote:
      I agree bursas are really annoying if you dont know how to kill them yet.. but so are manics. They should be level-locked like manics (lv15 and up) or juggernauts (lv30-something?)

      Well, there's almost always only one Manic present at a time (if at all) and I wouldn't consider that a comparable threat. To be honest, the level-lock would only be another band-aid.


      Rhionhi wrote:
      Zephyr is by no way unable to handle bursas, she if effectively immune to anything they could do (extends to corpus in general), you are just not using her abilities effectively. Keeps turbulence up when threatened, jump over them and divebomb or slam to stun them.
      The thing is, you can only use so many abilities before you're out of energy which happens rather quickly without high efficiency and having Isolators shooting nullifier balls at you. Combined with their spike damage potential, Zephyr can get into struggling. Not saying it isn't possible, just not that easy without the usual mods.


      Rhionhi wrote:
      More likely you just have the wrong elemental combinationsthis can cripple your damage, due to how big the modifiers are. Proper combinations do about 3-5 times the damage as bad ones at low level, and it gets even higher as enemies get more armor.
      That's definitely one of the most important factors and totally unseen for pretty much the rest of the game at that stage, hence the given problematic. It simply bears no relation to the rest of the early content.
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    • Rhionhi wrote:
      Bursas are heavily nerfed, if they are still giving anyone issues, the problem is the player, not the mob.

      Check your gear/mod choices, something is wrong with them.

      Why are you even commenting here anymore? I thought it was already decided that you have your head so far up your own ass you can't see shit and have nothing to add here. In the case of Bursas, the player is never the problem. The literal only problem it always comes down to is the Bursa itself, it's a cool concept mini-boss style enemy implemented badly. Even having gotten nerfed they're still a pain in the ass, because their shield panels literally make any shot to the front useless because it reduces damage soo much they might as well be invincible up front*, they love to spam their cc knock-downs so much so that even one bursa will send out 3 pulses in about half a minute, and despite what it says, they pretty much turn on a dime so forget shooting them in the back. *There are spots you can shoot at past those shields up front, but the fucking Bursas move so fast and jitter around, hitting any other spot but the shield is invalidated. Plus you have to remember to dodge it's attacks plus those of its buddies

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    • To add to my previous comment against Rhionhi. It's easy for high MR players to just make everything about themselves like you have. Sure maybe you don't have a problem with Bursas, but the majority of new players and more seasoned people have problems with them too.

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    • Just going to link this since I see we're looping around and around again: User blog:Brizingr5/Philosophically Logical Approach to Balance Concepts (read it as though the Corpus were a team of players, not just from the actual players perspective).

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    • Brizingr5 wrote:
      Does it give you a significant advantage over other players?

      Do I replace "players" with "Corpus units" here? That's one of the things said repeatedly: compared to Bursas, the majority of Corpus units are pretty much nonrelevant. Not by little but by a huge difference in strength and defensive capabilities. It's the very aspect that creates the gap which causes the given problems on lower levels, especially due to their rather inconsistent and/or bugged spawn mechanics.

      I experienced it myself on a big range of different missions: a failed Sortie Interception had only so many of them. On the second try, they literally swarmed the place (no problems due to cheese cc tactics). The given bugged or intended non-deactivatable alarms on alerts or dailies will give new players a hard time due to seemingly endless level increasing Bursa spawns, no matter how smart you actually use the little gear and mods you have at that point. In endless missions, there can be the same problem (as seen above).


      These are logical points in terms of balancing as well, yet I have to see actual counterarguments. All I saw so far were either "no problems (ever) for veteran players" or "get good" while discussing problems for new players... MagFanSoFar stated that he's a new player as well who has little to no problems with them; my "counterargument" there was that the given inconsistency in spawns yields very different experiences. So, you can be lucky or have four or more Bursas stomping you into the ground (sadly, his advice of simply running away doesn't work in e.g. Exterminates since you have to face them eventually).


      I really don't know how much more artificially objective we can get on this topic. The Corpus' "need" for more direct Tenno counters can't compete with the core principle of balancing that is to make them cohesive with the rest of the faction. I also know that I'm pretty much repeating all this but as I said, I don't really see an actual dialogue.
      No one wants them completely gone as they are indeed interesting and fun to play against if it's an actual fair process for every player.

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    • This has devolved into a circle of angry noobs raging about how they cant handle content most new players are totally ok with.

      I see MR4-6s in sorties, T4 void, ect, often pulling their weight as well as anyone else (or not, just as often).

      Dont blame the game if you are having trouble other people with equal progression are not, just find what you are doing wrong and fix it.

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    • So bottom line, I should create a Corrosive b Corrosive Damage build? I may be wrong, but it's not entirely elegant is it? Since Corrosive is most effective against Armor which the other non-Bursa Corpus units don't make much use of.

      While we're at it, how does Corrosive Projection fare against Bursas?

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    • Rhionhi wrote:
      This has devolved into a circle of angry noobs raging about how they cant handle content most new players are totally ok with.

      It's clear to me at this point that you're either not capable to read properly or just don't want to comprehend what's written. You are the only one who's spinning around from the very start of this topic. You are the one using language relatable to raging and ranting.


      Rhionhi wrote:
      Squeeaaaaaak *slam slam slam*

      (¬_¬)

      Probably the strongest enemies in the game right now, they are outright absurd.
      [...]
      That build should be able to kill a lv10 bursa in half a magazine.

      I know most people have no idea how damage actually works, but fact-check before you go on a rant about it.

      Good to see you actually know what you are talking about.. But you just sort of proved your original point invalid. I hope it all makes sense now, thanks.
      [...]
      They got a huge nerf weeks ago and are not even a threat anymore.

      They should be level-locked like manics (lv15 and up) or juggernauts (lv30-something?)
      So, when they were introduced as regular enemies, you obviously had a lot of "fun" yourself. Once some numbers but not their core functionality changed, they were suddenly not worth a damn and it's totally impossible for you to understand why new players could have problems with such an enemy while completely ignoring spawn-related issues.

      In the meantime, you proved that you're the one not knowing how Damage 2.0 really works while ignorantly throwing wrong numbers around based on superficial knowledge. In the end, you exited the conversation with the strangest post where you thanked me for whatever reason while obviously still not agreeing to anything.

      And then, after stating how bad all the new players that might struggle are several times, you suddenly agree they should be level-locked. Why is that the case if all the "complaints" aren't based on an actual problem.

      You're cherry-picking the things you'd like to rant about while ignoring anything else. While not even being on this wiki for half a year, I already saw multiple people, friendly and non-friendly, stating that your aggressive or even toxic tone isn't helping anyone.


      Rhionhi wrote:
      I see MR4-6s in sorties, T4 void, ect, often pulling their weight as well as anyone else (or not, just as often).
      MR is merely an artificial ranking and not an accurate description of neither someone's obtained gear nor their actual skill. You said it yourself, the other half aren't that "competent"; in fact, you'll find enough MR21 players who do very questionable things. The only thing MR is good for in this context is to state that a player has limited choices.

      People playing solo obviously won't have the same knowledge or gear as people who get supported by veterans.



      GFreeman wrote:
      While we're at it, how does Corrosive Projection fare against Bursas?
      CP works well against Bursas. One could even argue that its effect is superior to every other Aura (while only working against two of their enemies and Oxium Ospreys are irrelevant), making it pretty much the best choice everywhere which is stupid and not a dynamic modding system. Same goes for Corrosive damage.
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    • Rngd444 wrote:
      <snip>

      On the topoc of "cherry-picking", Ignore the fact that this was originally about high-level mobs before a nerf that reduced their power by about 70%.

      Maybe make a few anger-filled righteous threads on the official forums while you are at it.

      Why do you care this much?

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    • If you really want to be pedantic all of a sudden then no, the OP was about Bursas in general; the shift in the thread's topic to high level was equally intuitively done as the shift to low level later on, so nothing cherry-picked about that. Besides, 70% is as far-fetched and exaggerated as all of your previous numbers. The core functionality didn't change and is amplified by the discussed inconsistent (and probably still bugged) spawn-mechanics. While we're at it: no one in this thread in favor of their current state has ever addressed the latter.

      Nothing about my posts is anger-filled, I'm just stating my observations about your behaviour and that it isn't helping anyone. So, let me ask you the same question, why do you seemingly have to talk people down? Do you get anything out of it?

      And why do I really care while having no problems myself? Well, I know what problems the players are talking about and I don't tolerate someone glorifying without even being interested in countering arguments.

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    • Bursas seem to die easy to my ash bladestorm

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    • 2A00:F41:184D:3ED:0:4C:2180:AA01 wrote:
      Bursas seem to die easy to my ash bladestorm

      Sorry, just got on this thread (woo it's a long one), but I've just quit my mission, bcause of 2 Denials teaming up on me. They basically faced each other, so even if I could get behind them, one would usually slam me.

      I'm running a Volt, and I really can't see anyone here suggesting a build to use. My weapons arguably are shithouse, and still the original I got... so, is there a way for me to take these guys on?

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    • A Lone Tenno
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