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  • Knowing what we do about the 3 main opposing factions (Grineer, Corpus, Infested), who do you think would come to dominate the Origin System if the Tenno were to suddenly vanish?  I mean there are other factions, like the Corrupted and "Wild" and the Sentients, but the Corrupted never leave the towers, Kubrows and sandskates are not developing interstellar travel any time soon (at least, I think), and we simply don't know enough about the Sentients at this time to discenr their potential.

    My personal guess is the Infested, as they seem to multiply far faster than the other factions, and with Alad V's mutalist strain, virtually everything can become Infested.

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    • My bets are on the Grineer. They already have risen to extreme power within the system without us even being in the picture. Had we not intervened they would of already fixed their genome more, driven the Corpus farther back, and enslaved more colonies than they have now. The Infested even as they are now couldnt stand up to that I feel, the Grineer would be multiplying far too rapidly without us culling the herd.

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    • Yeah, probably the Infested are the best candidate, they take over planets with ease and without Tenno around they will spread anywhere. The Grineer will be many but every fallen soldier become an enemy against the Infested.

      Only the Sentient probably will stand up against them as the Infestation have no effect on them, as we saw from the Great War with the Orokin.

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    • I think a lot of people will say infested in this discussion because of what we've seen from the flood from halo. However, I don't think the infested multiply as easily as the flood, and so, I personally think the grineer would rule the system. All they have to do is fix their messed up genomes and they would dominate the universe. They already conquered so much without it thus far. We are the only thing in their way!

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    • I gotta go with Neithan. Sense the Grinner are clones,if they lost a huge chunk of grinner marines,they can just clone some more resulting in a huge invasion. But for me its either gonna be grinner or the infested

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    • I think they can't "clone some more".

      it must cost them something,

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    • actually the grinners bombar manics have the cure of infested right?

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    • 186.122.38.32 wrote:
      actually the grinners bombar manics have the cure of infested right?

      and and better ships

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    • Being as the condition of the question is that the tenno vanished, or went back to sleep, or however they disappear, all that the tenno have done thus far has still been done.  back to the question at hand.  We have Corpus, dealing mostly energy based (magnetic and electricity) and puncture damage and being most vulnerable to impact and energy damage and slashing after awhile, then Grineer, dealing mostly puncture with a decent amount of flame and slash thrown in and vulnerable to puncture and poison based damages, and we have infested, dealing mostly slash, impact, and poison based damages and being vulnerable to heat, slashing, and a couple poison based such as gas and corrosive.  

      So we have rock paper scissors basically.  Grineer don't exactly have the right damage type in their main forces, I'm not counting bosses or assassins on either side yet, to effectively kill the majority of corpus units, but corpus deal the right damage type to take out Grineer.  However, Corpus won't be able to last long against the infested because of infested disrupters and the poor corpus melee resilience.  With Grineer taking little damage from slashing and impact, infested will really only cause substantial damage with the occasional corrosive proc, but Grineer bombards, napalms, scorches, butchers, and troopers, can all cause mayhem for the infested.  

      Since we're currently at a stalemate, we need include faction behavior.  Infested are infinitely patient.  As long as there are derelicts, which are not easily accessed by other factions, infested will exist.  That would leave corpus to kill grineer if not for balor formorians.  Until such time as corpus get a super ship, I think Grineer are winning.  

      well that was long, and may not be 100% accurate, but theres my opinion.  

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    • 83.204.112.93 wrote:
      I think they can't "clone some more".

      it must cost them something,

      it takes one clone's body to make two others.

      186.122.38.32 wrote: actually the grinners bombar manics have the cure of infested right?

      Not at all, their genomes are just stronger than that of their normal Grineer counterparts.

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    • The Infested would just slowly spread their virus and wipe out the Corpus and Grineer, and even if they were all killed then the virus would still infect the other factions.

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    • the corpus would probably win, simply because of their technology, they would eventually find a cure for the infested, and the grineer, although they are many, would fall due their inability to advance their tecnixology, or fix their genes

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    • USouLz
      USouLz removed this reply because:
      Duplicate content.
      16:32, May 7, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • 213.120.234.109 wrote:
      the corpus would probably win, simply because of their technology, they would eventually find a cure for the infested, and the grineer, although they are many, would fall due their inability to advance their technology, or fix their genes

      The problem with that is without the Tenno, the Grineer would have fixed their genes already, and they got their technology that they have now from taking it from others, namely in part the Corpus. Any advantage the Corpus had would get basically taken by force from sheer numbers.

      People tend to forget that the Corpus were loosing the war against the Grineer before we showed up again.

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    • Now I don't know a lot about Warframe lore, being very new to the series, but I'm going to give my thoughts on what I've already seen, so please be easy on me, okay?

      -Grineer-

      It's true that the Grineer excel in large numbers, and that they've fully mastered everything there is to know about conventional weaponry, such as an automatic rifle or pistol. However, their soldiers are not very strong from what I know, very few posess shielding, very few, if any, posess energy weapons, their lifespan is significantly shorter, and according to the lore on their wikia page, they have a damaged or defective genome of some kind.

      That's not to say they are weak, however, because they are not. Their sheer numbers and mastery over conventional weaponry as I said earlier makes them an extreme force to be reckoned with. Their massive empire and expansion alone should be enough to prove that.

      -Corpus-

      I know even less of the Corpus, except for the fact that they posess arguably the best technology in the solar system, apart from the Orokin ruins scattered about. Energy weapons, advanced robots, shielding, the list goes on and on. The major downside I noticed, however, is that the Corpus have somewhat of a lacking in manpower, instead substituting that with robots. The Grineer, as far as I know with my limited knowledge, do not suffer from this because of their cloning program.

      If it were somehow possible to halt or even slow down the Grineer's cloning process, the Corpus could overrun them easily in my eyes simply because of the Corpus' advanced technology, shielding, and robots. As with the Grineer, the Corpus' widespread influence also makes them an extreme force to be reckoned with, seeing as how their presence is known on multiple planets and moons.

      -Infested-

      I know the least about the Infested out of all three. It appears to me that the Infested are very widespread and can move quickly, annihilating both Corpus and Grineer with relative ease. Additionally, they also seem to be an absolute pain to kill, at least in-game. From what I know, the Infested posess unique abilities of their own that give them their own special edge in combat. I would say that, in the right conditions, the Infested could certainly win in a battle.

      -Overall-

      As ridiculous as this may sound, I'm putting my money on the Corpus. No matter how many Infested or Grineer there are, the Corpus' advanced weaponry and shielding could kill them one by one easily, and repel their attacks fairly easily respectively. For what the Corpus lacks in manpower, they make up for in the sheer effectiveness of their robots. I swear, sometimes those robots in-game are a pain to kill unless you're using the correct equipment and upgrades.

      Now again, please be easy on me. I know very little about Warframe's lore and I only posted about what I knew.

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    • Mine would be the infested as not only do they create even more abominations from their fallen enemies but seeing all the new infestations that occur i.e. Juggernauts, Golems and the infestation of robotics, thye prove a force to be reckoned with as they seem to increasingly grow and adapt to areas in which they may lack such as large ships? (Golem), giant beasts that can take on a small army if not more? (Juggernaut), faction that has infested resistant units? (Virus moves to robotic forms). Hell even their elemental damage provides a nice balance to both opposiing faction such as the ancients and ospreys dealing damage which deletes/bypasses shielding. 

      Plus they have their BS Ancient healers so......

      Though I would say the Grineer come real close with their some-what never ending supply of clones (Kill 10, we will replace those with 1000 more) and their close succesion with curing the deteriorating DNA. Also Formorians so.......

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    • NeithanDiniem wrote:

      The problem with that is without the Tenno, the Grineer would have fixed their genes already, and they got their technology that they have now from taking it from others, namely in part the Corpus. Any advantage the Corpus had would get basically taken by force from sheer numbers.

      People tend to forget that the Corpus were loosing the war against the Grineer before we showed up again.

      The Grineer would have fixed their genes, but Tyl Regor is now dead (for most people), and how often does an scientist like that appear in an almost purely militaristic race? Their genes are also deteriorating, so over time the likelihood of a clever Grineer decreases even more...

      The Grineer were pushing back the Corpus, but then the Corpus were only a trade corporation. Take a look at the East India Company for what happens when you underestimate money and technology (and diplomatic strategy, but that doesn't really apply here unless the Tenno stay). As long as the Corpus can hold on, they get stronger over time.

      However, this brings us on to the Infested. The more that die to them, the more that get converted. They can't be wiped out easily because of their prescence in the derelicts, but they also cannot attack easily from a general lack of intelligence. They could probably be eradicated with coordination, but otherwise...

      The Sentients are much more difficult. The Infested were created to destroy them, yet they appear together? They cannot access the void, but already seem to have superior technology to everyone. Their effectiveness really comes down to their numbers and reproductive methods, both of which are currently unknown.

      So, in conclusion, I would say the outcome could go any way (probably on purpose), but if the war didn't start immediately then the Corpus would grow in strength the fastest.

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    • Tyl Regor is only dead by our hands, and like I said if it were not for our intervention he would of already cured the Grineer. His research that he managed before we killed him is what it is, functional. And if they can get one intelligent Grineer, it wouldnt be too impossible to do so again, especially if they have his body to clone from. His labs are still functioning without him being alive, and certainly he is not the only one capable of operating them.

      The issue with money and technology is that the Grineer were taking both from the Corpus. Losing too much profit and suddenly your revenues are pulling up short. You cant make a profit when you are losing more than you are getting in. Also the Grineer were raiding the corpus's customers, hardly allowing them to continue business operations with the Corpus. We already know the Grineer have taken enough resources to build an entire fleet of Fomorean ships, and that was with us being present to boot. Without us, whos going to stop them from making another? The Corpus? They couldnt stop them even when we were around.

      Sentients are a new faction which wasnt an original part of this discussion. Clearly they are superior than the other factions in most ways other than numbers.

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    • Tyl Regor created an insane bombard, assuming the tubemen were different then they were either wiped out or not ready before he was killed. As to there being another Regor, it seems unlikely for a race with a half life...

      The Corpus would get wiped out in a direct war now (hence the clause "if the war didn't start immediately"), but they could be excellent geurilla fighters, and can hit harder with fewer resources. Over time they could grow into the biggest threat.

      My line about the sentients was basically reiterating the original question, and as such wasn't needed. I only included it for completeness.

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    • Gameplay-wise, I think Grineer is a lot tougher than Corpus. During invasions allied Grineer also always seem to survive much more so than allied Corpus. (Especially those OP Napalm units lol)

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    • Roypel wrote:
      Tyl Regor created an insane bombard, assuming the tubemen were different then they were either wiped out or not ready before he was killed. As to there being another Regor, it seems unlikely for a race with a half life...

      The Corpus would get wiped out in a direct war now (hence the clause "if the war didn't start immediately"), but they could be excellent geurilla fighters, and can hit harder with fewer resources. Over time they could grow into the biggest threat.

      Regor's body could be used to clone new Grineer, and since his cognitive capabilities were quite strong, the resulting clone would also share that trait. What they used that added brain power for however is moot, the Queens would inform them of their duty. If they were told to research a cure for the decaying Grineer genome they would have Regor's pre-existing research material and labs to work in and pick back up where Regor left off easily enough.

      That brings up the next point of for every clone they have that dies, they can use that clone as a base to make 2 new ones. As long as they have material to start the process their cloning machines will replace any clone that dies easily enough. They really dont have a half life as long as they have enough cloning vats and genetic material to counter what they are losing.

      Grineer are the ones using guerilla tactics here already, they started out as nothing more than miners and canon fodder playing pirate. They struck hard and quick with little resources and exploded in numbers as they stole ships and cargo from their targets. Now they number so great they can simply hit hard with as many resources as they seem to want. Kinda hard to stop a strong force lead with a tactical mindset that simply relies on brute force and can take it's dead and the dead of their enemies to cook up new soldiers. They even have the luxury of finding the soldiers that performed the best so that the next generation picks up that better strain of soldier.

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    • NeithanDiniem wrote:

      That brings up the next point of for every clone they have that dies, they can use that clone as a base to make 2 new ones. As long as they have material to start the process their cloning machines will replace any clone that dies easily enough. They really dont have a half life as long as they have enough cloning vats and genetic material to counter what they are losing.

      They may be able to make 2 for 1 on clones, but that doesn't mean the next set last - by cloning a clone they are slowly losing bits of DNA, so that each new clone line is weaker (in a genetic sense) than its parent. This is the half life, though it's probably the wong term as the degradation won't converge to zero...

      Using Tyl Regor's body as a base for cloning could possibly work, if he was a mutant in the first place (to explain his intelligence), and if the new clones got all of his ability, and/or they had access to all of his research. I assumed the tenno (being good vandals) sabotaged the research, so any new Regor must somehow go through the same thought processes to get to the same research. Many identical twins are study completely different subjects (maths on one hand and polotics on the other with my friends), so genetics alone does not explain Regor's success.

      The Grineer were never really cannon geurillas, I thought they rose after the Orokin extinction, to fill the power gap with their endless clones. Conquest through numbers is the opposite of geurilla tactics. Perhaps they started small, but their tactics would always have been similar.

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    • Nah, the Grineer rose to power before the fall of the Orokin, not after. They didnt have numbers before, so they used guerilla tactics to pirate small shipments and ships as well as locate other groups of Grineer workers. They took the best clones that came from thous fights, dead or alive, and used them to create new soldiers. Since they no longer had the Orokin controling their cloning, that is likely what has lead to their degrading genetics. My guess is its like how our Kubrows DNA decays, a safty precaution against an insurrection against the Orokin. Only as their numbers grew did they become bolder and were able to hit harder. They still use the same strategies however, maintaining the use of unconventional warfare to fight most of their battles. You can have a vastly superior force in numbers and still use guerilla warfare tactics of raids, sabotage, ambushes, and hit-and-runs. The only remaining tactic they no longer need to use is petty warfare since their numbers counter the need to do so.

      As for Regor's research, it is present in all of his sealabs. We would need to eradicate every one of them and then sabotage any backup data on the research present elsewhere in their databanks. Quite the imposing task since we not only do not know how many labs there are but also where any backups may be. Taking out one lab is like squashing one ant out of an entire colony. And since Regor's research still exists, it can always be picked back up to prolong the genetic strength of the Grineer with what he already acomplished until a new intelligent Grineer is ordered by the Twins to continue work on it. Choice of what to study is entirely out of the question, they do as they are told.

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    • I had no idea the Grineer rose before, so you've probably read more than I have and I'll trust your judgement on that...

      If they did degrade like the Kubrows, then either they'd be dead already, or the ones we see are all children. The latter makes scientists even more unlikely! The different methods of degredation are probably just a gameplay device: no one would care if your Kubrow's great grandchild was a little unhealthy...

      The research depends on the Tenno's timeline. During that first event we were tasked with destroying the data (which we did). And most had previously killed Regor himself. This way there would be little data left. However, Alad V may have stolen some data, and some people still haven't killed Regor...

      But if you include Regor and his research, you must also include the Jackal, Hyena, Ambulas and Raptor research. Imagine fighting an army of those...

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    • The kubrows we see are the natural remnants of the wild Kubrow, not the remnants of the breeds the Orokin used I feel. My guess is when we Tenno incubate a Kubrow we modify the egg with something to specialize the wild Kubrow into the genetic breeds of the Orokin, but in doing so we degrade the genetic stability and thus have to maintain the animal. Its speculation there, but fully plausible.

      Remember, in several places like one of the Grineer spy vaults and the Infested Corpus ship tileset there are Jackals hanging in transport stasis. They already are being prepped for use in war (or Alad V wanted to see a Mutalist Jackal, Juggernauts perhaps?). Whether or not they are an older model than the Jackal, and thus less powerful, isnt known. Hyenas have also been seen in events so whos to say it isnt plausible for lesser versions of them to be seen in the future?

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    • I like the Kubrow idea, seems very plausible.

      Now that you mention it, there seem to e a lot of Jackals around. Why did we need to assasinate it then? Anyway, an army of Corpus boss proxies could destroy the Grineer...

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    • Roypel wrote:
      I like the Kubrow idea, seems very plausible.

      Now that you mention it, there seem to e a lot of Jackals around. Why did we need to assasinate it then? Anyway, an army of Corpus boss proxies could destroy the Grineer...

      Except as we now know the Grineer already have captured and begun study of the Jackal. Who knows what they are learning from it...

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    • NeithanDiniem wrote:

      Except as we now know the Grineer already have captured and begun study of the Jackal. Who knows what they are learning from it...

      Probably not much, considering their general lack of intelligence (the closest things they've got are the rollers). Also, I think they have a Lynx now and not a Jackal, and I seem to remember it turning on them...

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    • For what the Grineer may lack in intelligence, they make up for in raw power and sheer numbers respectively, there's no denying that. After all, there's a good reason the Grineer were winning the war before the Tenno showed up.

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    • I never thought about the Juggernaut being a Mutalist Lynx ,and maybe the Behemoth a Mutalist Jackal, I wonder if will ever see a Mutalist Bursa.

      And by the way Grineer in spy vaults have a Lynx it's smaller with green pattern and deploy turrets.

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    • Although the Juggernaut (Behemoth) displays some similar behaviour and appearance, I seem to remember that they are suppossed to be old (the general theme of infested is older = bigger). As the Jackal, Lynx, and Hyenas are meant to be new, it is unlikely this is where they're from. Perhaps they do share a common ancestor though?

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    • Roypel wrote:
      Although the Juggernaut (Behemoth) displays some similar behaviour and appearance, I seem to remember that they are suppossed to be old (the general theme of infested is older = bigger). As the Jackal, Lynx, and Hyenas are meant to be new, it is unlikely this is where they're from. Perhaps they do share a common ancestor though?

      Thats not really the case, considering there are plenty of larger infested that arent new (Look at Jordas or the Moas) Also remember that the Golem was growing inside a modern Corpus ship, possibly meaning that they are a creation of Alad V instead.

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    • I thought Jordas was quite old, and was only found recently. There's no evidence that the Corpus ship is 'new'...

      You might have a point about the moas though, a larger host would naturally give a larger infested, even before they eat anything.

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    • I like the sound of "mutalist jackal"


      But in my opinion, the infested essentially can win by having a 1 for 1 strategy, because creating new infested is even simpler than cloning.  As shown by Jordas, the infested can in fact infact AIs and technology, and with the Corpus's use of cephalons could be devastating, and the grineer is essentially a mass of infestible flesh.

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    • Roypel wrote:
      I thought Jordas was quite old, and was only found recently. There's no evidence that the Corpus ship is 'new'...

      Before the Mutalist strain of Infestation ,created by Alad V, the Infested couldn't ,even if they wanted, infect a robotic creature so I'd say Jordas is quite a recent creation.

      As for the Ancient being larger with more age is sometimes a bit confusing, in the story told by the Corrupted Ancient synthesis the healer was a twin sister ,of the storyteller, recently mutated and became an Ancient or at least it's proto version.

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    • That would make sense Vauban Prime. Though I am always unwilling to base an arguement on gameplay (and not the written word), ancients used to be Corpus remember!

      The Infested have changed inorganics in the past (creating the Mire etc.), but it sounds right that they couldn't convert AIs. This was one of the original reasons for the synthetic Orokin race theory. On balance, you are probably right and Jordas is a relatively new creation.

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    • Roypel wrote:
      That would make sense Vauban Prime. Though I am always unwilling to base an arguement on gameplay (and not the written word), ancients used to be Corpus remember!

      The Infested have changed inorganics in the past (creating the Mire etc.), but it sounds right that they couldn't convert AIs. This was one of the original reasons for the synthetic Orokin race theory. On balance, you are probably right and Jordas is a relatively new creation.

      All we know is that robotics were never possible to be infested before the Mutalist Incursion began, and those seed ships of that incursion are what became Jordas and the other golems. The infestation has always been capable of infesting inorganic material, as the Grineer and Corpus armor was likewise infested when the body was. The Mire is no such exception to this. The difference is a robotic also contains an AI. Before, the Infestation probably just turned dead robotics into that infested stringy goop seen all over the infested levels, since the thing, to them, would be useless. The AI in a living robotic provides a mind to control and manipulate.

      As to the ancients being corpus before, that is no longer canon as that was only a thing due to lack of models in very early game development.

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    • You've basically said exactly the same thing as me, but with fancier words! The only thing I would change there is "the other golems". Lephantis (and J-3 if he is still a thing) were created in the early days of the infestation, and not with the advent of the mutalist strain.

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    • Roypel wrote:
      You've basically said exactly the same thing as me, but with fancier words! The only thing I would change there is "the other golems". Lephantis (and J-3 if he is still a thing) were created in the early days of the infestation, and not with the advent of the mutalist strain.


      Except he wasnt. J3 is the infested using the AI that controled he seed ship Alad V sent out to hide so that it could complete the work he wanted it to. We know 100% when this ship was sent out. Infested Jordas didnt exit before that point. J3 is Mutalist. The Mutalist Infested dont just melt down and absorb the metal of the ship, they use it, enhance it, add more mobility to it, armor it, etc.

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    • Hi there, OP here.  I like the direction that this conversation has gone, and I'd like to contribute a few thoughts:

      1.  Now that we have a pile of Sentient lore from The Second Dream, and Sentient enemies exist in the game, I feel that it is reasonable to include the Sentient in this discussion.  While they do have powerful weaponry and near-invulnerability to in-game enemies (due to most in-game enemies having the kind of low damage-per-hit, high fire rate weapons that the Sentient are so very resistant to), they lack significant numbers and can be overwhelmed by high numbers of opponents,  

      2.  The infested ancients, in their current form, have noticable simalarities in body shape to a Sentient drone, although this could be coincidence.  This may imply that the infestation CAN infect Sentients, but it may be more difficult, and the Sentients may have developed a resistance to the infestation.

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    • To Neithan: I was talking about J-3 in his old placeholder form, back when the description talked about him being ancient and accumulating mass.

      To the OP: Unfortunately the Corrupted Ancient's synthesis entry talks about their origin (in a roundabout way) as from Orokin healers. It's a good read. However, they were made as a weapon to be used against the sentients, so they should be pretty effective against them. Also, their numbers in the missions may be low, but these might just be the heralds...

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    • The Sentient are for sure the race who will win if you add them to the power struggle, they nearly wiped the Orokin themselves if it wasn't for the Tenno.

      And the one we saw for now are just scouts the real one will be a big deal as they adapt in instants and they turn technology on you, when I was doing the Second Dream quest my Diriga began to shoot me till I was dead.

      And Sentients are immune to the Infestation ,or at least they adapted aswell in the old war, I wonder if the Mutalist now can infect them we'll see about that.

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    • Roypel wrote:
      To Neithan: I was talking about J-3 in his old placeholder form, back when the description talked about him being ancient and accumulating mass.

      To the OP: Unfortunately the Corrupted Ancient's synthesis entry talks about their origin (in a roundabout way) as from Orokin healers. It's a good read. However, they were made as a weapon to be used against the sentients, so they should be pretty effective against them. Also, their numbers in the missions may be low, but these might just be the heralds...

      Old J3 placeholder is non-canonical and should not be used for info about the new current version we have now.

      As for Infested vs Sentients, they are immune to infestation and would adapt to the damage in just the same way. There is a reason that the Orokin had to use the Tenno to end the sentient war instead of finishing it with the Infestation. Likely the Orokin tried to replicate the adaption capability of the Sentients and failed miserably, not only did it not work but it turned against them.

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    • Funny thing.  Since the infested have the largest amount of damage types among their units, they would probably be the most effective against the sentients.  Not effective enough to win, but more so than the Grineer or Corpus.  

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    • Greyshade3713 wrote:
      Being as the condition of the question is that the tenno vanished, or went back to sleep, or however they disappear, all that the tenno have done thus far has still been done.  back to the question at hand.  We have Corpus, dealing mostly energy based (magnetic and electricity) and puncture damage and being most vulnerable to impact and energy damage and slashing after awhile, then Grineer, dealing mostly puncture with a decent amount of flame and slash thrown in and vulnerable to puncture and poison based damages, and we have infested, dealing mostly slash, impact, and poison based damages and being vulnerable to heat, slashing, and a couple poison based such as gas and corrosive.  

      So we have rock paper scissors basically.  Grineer don't exactly have the right damage type in their main forces, I'm not counting bosses or assassins on either side yet, to effectively kill the majority of corpus units, but corpus deal the right damage type to take out Grineer.  However, Corpus won't be able to last long against the infested because of infested disrupters and the poor corpus melee resilience.  With Grineer taking little damage from slashing and impact, infested will really only cause substantial damage with the occasional corrosive proc, but Grineer bombards, napalms, scorches, butchers, and troopers, can all cause mayhem for the infested.  

      Since we're currently at a stalemate, we need include faction behavior.  Infested are infinitely patient.  As long as there are derelicts, which are not easily accessed by other factions, infested will exist.  That would leave corpus to kill grineer if not for balor formorians.  Until such time as corpus get a super ship, I think Grineer are winning.  

      well that was long, and may not be 100% accurate, but theres my opinion.  

      I don't think damage type really has all that much to do with lore. It's just a gameplay mechanic. even if it did there is no reason Corpus and Grineer couldn't steal weapons from each other.

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    • Corpus, becaus those fat robots can kill any units, I bet it can even take out stalker easy or those sentients

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    • 73.25.40.216 wrote:
      Corpus, becaus those fat robots can kill any units, I bet it can even take out stalker easy or those sentients

      Hardly, they can barely even get new units out the door before they get killed. And stalker and sentinets would become almost immune to all damage from them after a few shots.

      Also people keep forgetting, the Grineer are by the game's own lore winning the war against the Corpus already, despite all of those fat robots.

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    • NeithanDiniem wrote:
      73.25.40.216 wrote:
      Corpus, becaus those fat robots can kill any units, I bet it can even take out stalker easy or those sentients
      Hardly, they can barely even get new units out the door before they get killed. And stalker and sentinets would become almost immune to all damage from them after a few shots.

      Also people keep forgetting, the Grineer are by the game's own lore winning the war against the Corpus already, despite all of those fat robots.

      The Grineer WERE winning the war.  However, this was before the events of the game (a convoluted and confusing sitution).  During the course of the game, Alad V created Zanuka, which the Corpus still use.  Nef Anyo created the Bursas and the Razorback.  The potent Comba and Scrambus entered the battlefield.  Fusion Moas and Oxium Ospreys, were invented.  Lynx proxies are also now present.  At this point, a variety of tougher Corpus units have apparently been entering mass production.  Hyenas, according to the Razorback event, have also entered mass production despite our actions, and they can do some insane things.  If even 1 Razorback survived that event, it would be a deadly nightmare against any Grineer that it comes across (at least until it tries to walk through a door).

      The Grineer, in comparison, have been able to create fewer, and largely less notable new units.  Manics, while dangerous, are easily dispatched under sustained fire.  Drahks and Hyekka aren't of great note, and their masters, while generally priority targets, don't tend to turn the tide of battle.  Manic Bombards are a great danger, but their numbers are few, and likely dwindling without Tyl Regor to produce more.  The Grustag 3, while dangerous in the extreme, number only 3.  The greatest innovation by the Grineer has to be their creation of the Fomorians and Balor Fomorians, but Balor Fomorians appear to take a great deal of time to create, and take a great deal of time to fire even a single shot.

      The Corpus' R&D department is, without a doubt, much better than the Grineer's, especially with Tyl Regor dead and Vor devoted to the Void.  While it is completely believable that the Grineer were emerging victorious, changes in the Corpus and the re-introduction of the Infestation have greatly shifted the military climate of the system.  

      And that's without thinking about the Infestation.  Between Tengus and Alad V, the Infestation has re-appeared in the system, and become vastly more capable of spreading.  Before, it was confined to the Derelicts.  Now, it can infect and control entire ships, create ship-sized golems that could threaten a Fomorian, and infect AI.  The Mutalist strain appears to have mixed with the older strain found in the Derelicts, meaning that it is possible, frighteningly, that truly ancient Infested, similar to Lephantis, could escape the Derelicts.  IF it is possible for Sentients to become infested, a single Infested Sentient could be a great threat.  

      The Sentient, on the other hand, have only just returned.  They are a grave threat to any they encounter, but appear to be largely uninterested in combat with the Corpus or Grineer (if an Occulyst spots a Corpus or Grineer, it will just scan it, and go about its business without calling in any Battlysts or Conculysts), instead focusing on gathering information.  This would likely change with the Tenno gone, but the Sentients would probably be the last ones to find out about the disappearance of the Tenno.  In many ways, the Sentients are similar to the Tenno, in that they are few in number, but almost every individual holds the power to wipe out an entire ship with ease.  As a result, the Sentients would likely meet with the same high level of success as the Tenno.

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    • Infested, no question about it. I mean, the progress of the game is evidence enough, which is fairly interesting. Eris was Corpus for a while when the Infested were only in the Derelict, and then thanks to Salad V doing his weirdness and becoming Protein Salad V or Chicken Salad V or whatever, the Infested got stronger. And completely annihilated Eris.

      Soooooo yeah, no question. Infested.

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    • Camelslayer wrote:
      Infested, no question about it. I mean, the progress of the game is evidence enough, which is fairly interesting. Eris was Corpus for a while when the Infested were only in the Derelict, and then thanks to Salad V doing his weirdness and becoming Protein Salad V or Chicken Salad V or whatever, the Infested got stronger. And completely annihilated Eris.

      Soooooo yeah, no question. Infested.


      You realise that infested were once default on several planets, but got kicked out because DE wanted to build a proper introduction of them with a lore right? They removed references to dark sector as they refined the game more specifically as Warframe and a lot of those things got cut back. Jupiter used to be by its own definition in the game a heavily infested area.

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    • 71.158.175.65 wrote:...

      Now this is precisely what I was talking about. Grineer were the dominant power, but corrupted genes on their side mixed with the technlogical advances of the Corpus (and the advent of the Mutalist and Sentients) mean that they are unlikely to sustain their dominance over any protracted war. The Grineer have the manpower, but that has never been a prerequisite to win a war.

      Also, about the Infestation - I seem to recall it was the Tenno that were the Orokin's last hope of defeating it after it went rogue. If any of the factions were to wipe out the Tenno, the infestation would be likely to replace them. So far it has been the Corpus who are most willing to work with them...

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    • Well the things that happend in the game we don't really know what are the facts that are canon stuff or just an event or a boss to make some real challenge, in my opinion almost all tactical alert are pretty useless lore wise.

      Probably the things that are "approved" are the units who appear in any mission type like infested mutalist and bursas lately, and the Devs backed the fact that Vor died and was brought back to life in the void but we don't really know the fate of Tyl Regor and Sargas Ruk.

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    • Vauban Prime wrote:

      Devs backed the fact that Vor died and was brought back to life in the void but we don't really know the fate of Tyl Regor and Sargas Ruk.

      Perhaps it's only the things that happen in the trailers that are canon? Vor was killed by Excalubur in a trailer (though so was Lech Kril come to think of it). To me their lore is still a mess, so I'm going to assume that all these assassination missions we're doing are successful! The alternative of course is that we as players have absolutely no impact on the story...

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    • Infested, overrun everything Grineer, overrun everything Corpus, build a nuke

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    • Roypel wrote:
      Vauban Prime wrote:
      Devs backed the fact that Vor died and was brought back to life in the void but we don't really know the fate of Tyl Regor and Sargas Ruk.
      Perhaps it's only the things that happen in the trailers that are canon? Vor was killed by Excalubur in a trailer (though so was Lech Kril come to think of it). To me their lore is still a mess, so I'm going to assume that all these assassination missions we're doing are successful! The alternative of course is that we as players have absolutely no impact on the story...

      Largely the quests are what are canon, the missions are gameplay mechanics. Each time you run an assassination mission, it technically would be the first time you ever did it in this game's logic. You start the mission as if you had never fought this target before, Lotus is always informing you of how to proceed as if it is your first encounter, and upon killing them it is mostly an action done with some finality in the dialog, other than Vay Hek and Corrupted Vor. You cant kill a target multiple times other than Corrupted Vor, since he cant die he is the exception. They either escape or revive. The ones in game now that you kill thus are bound by the gameplay mechanic. Whether or not DE will revitalize those assassinations and give story to them I dont know.

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    • Yes, quests are definetly canon as well and even major events for example in second dream Alad V remarks that he owe us a favor from the event tubeman of Regor, and after that in another event the acolyte hunt down Alad V for that.

      So is safe to assume that both are canon and chronologically linked to the story.

      Oh and basically all boss fights are "what if" scenarios in my opinion.

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    • Yea, I forgot to mention events. Most of those are sudo-cannon, the crazy ones with a hundred hyenas and bursas and the like dont really fit the already existing lore, where as the ones like Tubemen bear quite a lot of weight on the story. Im curious if DE will fill in those blanks that get left open with quests, or allow the events to be replayed by players as a quest unlock (prevent you from doing the replayable event untill you have done the required quest). Its interesting to say the least.

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    • I was about to say that the zanuka project could be revived if the Tenno weren't here but then I remembered that it requires warframe parts to work.

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    • Honestly it all just comes down to the fact that the Infestation spreads like fire. It doesn't matter if the Corpus have shields, robotics, and energy weapons, or that the Grineer have massive armies. Since I can only assume the inteligence of the Infestation on the fact that bosses like Phorid and Lephantis can talk and that Cephalon Jordas set a trap of sorts, they may have some degree of inteligence to the point were if they were ever to overun say a lab or cloning facility on Uranus or a Corpus manufacturing site they would probably try to keep them working to some degree to churn out clones and robots to infest and use later. Maybe I'm thinking into this too much using rl logic..

      In the end the Infestation would win by consuming everything in the solar system, but then they would be stuck there with nothing else to do, unless the Sentients made the trip back across the void somehow and destroyed everything they found just because.

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    • 66.67.69.49 wrote:

      In the end the Infestation would win by consuming everything in the solar system, but then they would be stuck there with nothing else to do,

      What do the Infested need to sustain themselves? Without food one could assume that they would decay, but we have found the derelict ships with living Infested - surviving off what?

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    • Gameplay wise, the Grineer are by far the toughest enemies to kill, with high level Corpus missions coming at a close second due to their robots. The Infested, truth be told, are very easily to kill because the majority of melee weapons tend to come with a huge Slash damage bonus, making quick work of them. In particular, I enjoy slashing them to bits with a modified Galatine.

      After learning much more about the lore after my previous post, I'm going to put my bet on the Grineer now, if not for their massive numbers alone, and for the huge amounts of armor that they put on each soldier, and some of their weapons are deceptively powerful, despite their crude appearance. As crude as their equipment may be, it's also cheaper and easier to produce, allowing the Grineer to produce this equipment by the billions.

      Combine their huge equipment supply with a near endless supply of cloned soldiers means they can constantly send a platoon of Grineer onto the field to fight back and Infested or Corpus forces. If a platoon is defeated, such send out another one. After all, the Grineer only have millions of clones ready to be sent out.

      And after all, there is that saying called "Strength in numbers" and Grineer certainly have numbers on their side, and those massive numbers certainly do add up to an incredible amount of military strength.

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    • Dapoculos13 wrote:
      <snip>

      Not to mention the fact that the Grineer can take the dead bodies of their fallen soldiers and use each one to make two more soldiers in their cloning labs. Even if they sustain heavy losses in a fight, as long as they are able to clean up after a battle they can still come out on top in numbers if they have their cloning labs.

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    • Roypel wrote:

      What do the Infested need to sustain themselves? Without food one could assume that they would decay, but we have found the derelict ships with living Infested - surviving off what?

      Most likely nothing seeing as their hosts are already dead. But if the technocyte does need anything to live it ay ust be energy or something. Best guess is nothing though

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    • Just adding to what I said above, the Infested will often aimlessly wander if you're cloaked or just observing them and they haven't noticed the players frame yet. So really it is probably more lokely than not that they don't need to eat or sleep, they just exist. And with it being presumed that the Orokin made them, since the lore now hints at that, they probably only gave them one directive, to kill, nothing else

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    • 66.67.69.49 wrote:
      Just adding to what I said above, the Infested will often aimlessly wander if you're cloaked or just observing them and they haven't noticed the players frame yet. So really it is probably more lokely than not that they don't need to eat or sleep, they just exist. And with it being presumed that the Orokin made them, since the lore now hints at that, they probably only gave them one directive, to kill, nothing else

      All enemies behave that way when they havent detected the player, so that really isnt unique to the Infested. They likely function just like any infection does, the infested tissue canibalizes the host untill it is prepared to reproduce or spread again, then it bursts or breaks down. Infested levels often have fungus like growths on the floors and walls, which could be these bodies or organic substance when they have burst or broken down so as to spread the infestation. When conditions arent prime for spreading itself it would just go dormant or something. The husks we see the infested use, the enemy units, arent bodies that likely require food or rest. The infestation is what is driving the bodies, and the shell it resides in is its food source and means of getting around faster.

      Think of it like a highly advanced form of the zombifying fungus mixed with a technological nanobot virus. They control a host untill it brings the infection to a location where it can spread itself and reproduce. In Warframe, the infested at their core are no different.

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    • The Infestation is a very interesting situation.  You can essentially think of it as a single, massive organism, and the individual Infested units as its cells.  So, while it can control what its hordes generally do, and what direction it sends them, it cannot control the individual actions of Chargers and the like.  An exception to that rule may be Lephantis, Phorid, and the J3 Golem, as they have complex enough behavior that they may be under the control of whatever the central "intelligence" is of the Infestation.  

      Infestation also appears to require NOTHING to survive, potentially being able to enter a stasis of sorts, since, according to Cordylon (who is also pseudo-canon), Infested matter can survive in the vacuum of space, waiting until it encounters a passing ship, asteroid, or even planet to begin spreading again.  In one of Lotus' warning lines about Lephantis, she also mentions that it has become stronger though a process of "self-replication", which implies that Infestation doesn't require additional hosts to spread or enlarge itself, only time.  

      These two features mean that, while the Infestation's units might be harder to kill, it needs only time and isolation to grow stronger.  Which means it requires even less than the Grineer to replicate itself.  While we assume that Lephantis was the only of its kind, it quite possibly wasn't.  And we know that Phorid can appear in multiple locations simultaneously.  Just imagine going into an assassination mission, but instead of 1 Phorid, there's 5.  Or 100.  I'm not sure how the Grineer or the Corpus would deal with that.  Other than John Prodman.

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    • NeithanDiniem wrote:
      66.67.69.49 wrote:
      Just adding to what I said above, the Infested will often aimlessly wander if you're cloaked or just observing them and they haven't noticed the players frame yet. So really it is probably more lokely than not that they don't need to eat or sleep, they just exist. And with it being presumed that the Orokin made them, since the lore now hints at that, they probably only gave them one directive, to kill, nothing else
      All enemies behave that way when they havent detected the player, so that really isnt unique to the Infested. They likely function just like any infection does, the infested tissue canibalizes the host untill it is prepared to reproduce or spread again, then it bursts or breaks down. Infested levels often have fungus like growths on the floors and walls, which could be these bodies or organic substance when they have burst or broken down so as to spread the infestation. When conditions arent prime for spreading itself it would just go dormant or something. The husks we see the infested use, the enemy units, arent bodies that likely require food or rest. The infestation is what is driving the bodies, and the shell it resides in is its food source and means of getting around faster.

      Think of it like a highly advanced form of the zombifying fungus mixed with a technological nanobot virus. They control a host untill it brings the infection to a location where it can spread itself and reproduce. In Warframe, the infested at their core are no diff nerent.

      Not all enemies act like that. The Corpus and Grineer have patrols they follow, and from certain rooms aboard their respective ships it can be assumed that they do sleep and work, etc. live for the most part in their given environments. The Infestation on the other hand only does one of two things. They either aimlessly roam, or attack and consume their enemies.

      That is an interesting theory though, but the lore already says it's the Technocyte virus, which in darkSector was nano machines... assuming Warframe is a sort of spiritual successor or even set in the same universe or something like that. Nano machines don't need to eat or reproduce through conventional means, which would explain why the Infested don't come in all states of decay or twisted into all forms of shapes (Not just DE being lazy ;P)

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    • How was this ever even a discussion?

      Corpus would come out on top with ease. 

      If this was back when the game first started then i would say grineer but the tides have completely switched since then. It use to be: Grineer, Infested, Corpus but now it is Corpus, Infested, Grineer.

      The Grineer would be obliterated because they are susceptible to, literally, everything. The Corpus can disable their buffs, block bullets with Ice Eximus Nully (double shield OP)  and stomp them in terms of Armor with Bursa (which can easilly take on an army of grineer alone since their missle barage is far stronger than a Grineer Bombard). Let's not even mention the vast amount of power Sapping Ospreys have >.> Just a few of those on the battlefield can destroy entire squads in one go.

      They would also lose to the Infested because the Grineer units have never been known to be "fast", except for the Maniac. The Infested work very similarly to the Zerg and they come in droves, very quickly. The Grineer would simply be over-run, even with their vast number of clones. We could say that the Grineer have "Kavats" and that by lore they consume infested but i have yet to see the Kavats win against the Juggernaught. I know Kavats are a pain in the Arse because they can one shot frames with low armor/shields/heatlh but doing that to a Jug is another story.

      In the end Grineer, no matter how strong they get in dmg, are simply way too far behind the other factions in tech/versatility. This is why Grineer are a literal joke in Sortie because we can just walk all over them with warframe abilities. Infested have Disruptors which reduce the duration of things like Avalanche freeze dur roughly 75% each one and corpus have nullifier bubbles either from Nullies or Bursa which grants them immunity and even removes stat effects like Nyx Chaos upon entering the bubble.

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    • Yet all the fancy Corpus tech does pretty much nothing to the Infested. Flux Rifles don't do damage fast enough, the standard issue Dera isn't accurate or powerful enough, Nullifier shield bubbles do pretty much nothing to Chargers, MOA's can get infected now too thanks to Salad V, need I go on? Like Shinigamiscall said himself, the Infestation are like the Zerg.

      It's a game, so only game logic applies really, but if these things were suddenly brought to life, the Infestation would probably steamroll every faction and then burn itself out

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    • Shinigamiscall wrote:<snip>

      Why are we using how effective us tenno are against a target and how good the enemy's defences are against us tenno as a means to judge how well those enemies would fare against the Grineer, or each other for that matter? Those defences are for Tenno, not each other.

      As for the infestation, the issue is that only the mutalist strain is the one that would be deadly to anyone else. The normal infestation is stuck where it is until it can travel to another location via tagging along with a ship or being directly sent somewhere by someone. It cant travel on its own long distances quickly, and certainly not in force. All the factions would have to do is clear the site like they already do to clean up the infestation and then proceed as normal with operations. The grineer have their defences and countermeasures against infestation, the same as the corpus. It is only the mutalist strain in the corpus seed ships that have any methodology to move around in force and directly attack a location.

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    • NeithanDiniem wrote:
      Shinigamiscall wrote:<snip>
      Why are we using how effective us tenno are against a target and how good the enemy's defences are against us tenno as a means to judge how well those enemies would fare against the Grineer, or each other for that matter? Those defences are for Tenno, not each other.

      As for the infestation, the issue is that only the mutalist strain is the one that would be deadly to anyone else. The normal infestation is stuck where it is until it can travel to another location via tagging along with a ship or being directly sent somewhere by someone. It cant travel on its own long distances quickly, and certainly not in force. All the factions would have to do is clear the site like they already do to clean up the infestation and then proceed as normal with operations. The grineer have their defences and countermeasures against infestation, the same as the corpus. It is only the mutalist strain in the corpus seed ships that have any methodology to move around in force and directly attack a location.


      I'm not using tenno as the baseline for these points but Simulacrim. The new grineer are excessively stronger than the former but, even without testing it, i am fairly certain that the Bursa units will still stomp them. Also, you are using lore as a means to decide what faction would win rather than in game tests, which is what matters because even while the lore may suggest Grineer could win against infested we have had to save both factions from them(infested) on multiple occassions. The lore could say that Nef Anyo is able to lift more than a marshmellow but that doesn't mean that he will in game....as he falls over faster than a $5 hooker on a Friday night. :d

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    • Shinigamiscall wrote:
      I'm not using tenno as the baseline for these points but Simulacrim. The new grineer are excessively stronger than the former but, even without testing it, i am fairly certain that the Bursa units will still stomp them. Also, you are using lore as a means to decide what faction would win rather than in game tests, which is what matters because even while the lore may suggest Grineer could win against infested we have had to save both factions from them(infested) on multiple occassions. The lore could say that Nef Anyo is able to lift more than a marshmellow but that doesn't mean that he will in game....as he falls over faster than a $5 hooker on a Friday night. :d

      The entire premise of this discussion is which side would domiate the origin system if us tenno were not around. That isnt something that would happen naturally in game, that is however something that theoretically could happen within the game's story, which is based on that story's lore. This IS a discussion about the lore of the game. Mechanics designed specifically to provide content early on for players to encounter the infested is hardly a foundation to build this discussion off of. The infested are programed to spread in specific patterns in the game, so you really cant argue that it is a sign that they would win simply because we have to go kill a few hundred infested to clear the map node. The grineer literally are programed to lose in those fights because their numbers are preset to be low.

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    • NeithanDiniem wrote:
      Shinigamiscall wrote:
      I'm not using tenno as the baseline for these points but Simulacrim. The new grineer are excessively stronger than the former but, even without testing it, i am fairly certain that the Bursa units will still stomp them. Also, you are using lore as a means to decide what faction would win rather than in game tests, which is what matters because even while the lore may suggest Grineer could win against infested we have had to save both factions from them(infested) on multiple occassions. The lore could say that Nef Anyo is able to lift more than a marshmellow but that doesn't mean that he will in game....as he falls over faster than a $5 hooker on a Friday night. :d
      The entire premise of this discussion is which side would domiate the origin system if us tenno were not around. That isnt something that would happen naturally in game, that is however something that theoretically could happen within the game's story, which is based on that story's lore. This IS a discussion about the lore of the game. Mechanics designed specifically to provide content early on for players to encounter the infested is hardly a foundation to build this discussion off of. The infested are programed to spread in specific patterns in the game, so you really cant argue that it is a sign that they would win simply because we have to go kill a few hundred infested to clear the map node. The grineer literally are programed to lose in those fights because their numbers are preset to be low.

      I think you misunderstood my point, again.

      My tests were done in Simulacrim, NOT in a mission where they are "designed to lose" (which, no matter how you look at it, that is PART OF THE LORE), where there are no other factors at work. It is a RAW fight between 2 enemies of equivilent level duking it out. The Grineer, are legitimately the weakest. Even if we went PURELY from a lore perspective they would be erradicated. They are not nearly as technologically advanced as the Corpus and even with their vast number of clones pouring out by the millions, it is still significantly slower than the spread of the infestation. So any arguement made in their defence is as void as Nef Anyo's cranium.

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    • Shinigamiscall wrote:

      I think you misunderstood my point, again.

      My tests were done in Simulacrim, NOT in a mission where they are "designed to lose" (which, no matter how you look at it, that is PART OF THE LORE), where there are no other factors at work. It is a RAW fight between 2 enemies of equivilent level duking it out. The Grineer, are legitimately the weakest. Even if we went PURELY from a lore perspective they would be erradicated. They are not nearly as technologically advanced as the Corpus and even with their vast number of clones pouring out by the millions, it is still significantly slower than the spread of the infestation. So any arguement made in their defence is as void as Nef Anyo's cranium.

      Your point about the Grineer being weak is only valid if the Grineer are in equal numbers to the others, which we know they are not. The technology of the corpus doesnt matter if the grineer just show up and nuke the site from orbit before swarming in, or worse just destroy the facility or ship and salvage what they want. That is how they work in the story of the game. Also no, the fact that the infested spread quickly on planets is not a part of the lore, its a mechanic. It is just a way to spread the infested to more areas of the map considering they are exclusive to only two of the tilesets outside of dark sectors and outbreak missions. Prior to the outbreak system the infested had planets they dominated, but they never spread. The change pushed them out of most of the map, making them enemies you rarely faced. Thats the only reason they spread fast and in such range across the nodes.

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    • The Infested by lore are meant to spread fast and far - they're a genetic engineered biological weapon.

      The Grineer could destroy a Corpus outpost before swarming it, but so could the Corpus do the same in reverse. The very fact that the Corpus survive shows their relative strength to the almost unstoppable Grineer, and the Corpus advance faster. Unfortunately we can't come up with a difinitive answer based on fleeting glimpses of historical success or present technology. there's simply too much unknown.

      I stand by my previos answers and say that the Grineer are most powerful currently, but will fail with time. The Corpus are few and scattered, but would be very powerful given more warning. The success of the Infested depends on the inteligence of the Mutalist strain, and its ability to survive without food. If both are good, then the other factions face a very tough challenge...

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    • The gameplay mechanics don't really do the Infested the most justice out of every faction, considering lore wise they would be more like the Flood from Halo, infecting targets on the spot. So far we only have glimpses of how they infect targets and no idea how long it takes or if there has to be any specific place they infect targets at.

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    • Well the Infested lore wise overrun many Orokin facility back in the days, the Derelicts are the living proof of that, and considering the fact that Grineer and Corpus were lower classes ,compared to the Orokin, they'll have lower chance against them.

      Even the Orokin were forced to use the Tenno against them.

      The game give very low credits on the Infested as the weakest faction but in my opinion they deserve more like the Zerg in Starcraft.

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    • NeithanDiniem wrote:
      Shinigamiscall wrote:
      I think you misunderstood my point, again.

      My tests were done in Simulacrim, NOT in a mission where they are "designed to lose" (which, no matter how you look at it, that is PART OF THE LORE), where there are no other factors at work. It is a RAW fight between 2 enemies of equivilent level duking it out. The Grineer, are legitimately the weakest. Even if we went PURELY from a lore perspective they would be erradicated. They are not nearly as technologically advanced as the Corpus and even with their vast number of clones pouring out by the millions, it is still significantly slower than the spread of the infestation. So any arguement made in their defence is as void as Nef Anyo's cranium.

      Your point about the Grineer being weak is only valid if the Grineer are in equal numbers to the others, which we know they are not. The technology of the corpus doesnt matter if the grineer just show up and nuke the site from orbit before swarming in, or worse just destroy the facility or ship and salvage what they want. That is how they work in the story of the game. Also no, the fact that the infested spread quickly on planets is not a part of the lore, its a mechanic. It is just a way to spread the infested to more areas of the map considering they are exclusive to only two of the tilesets outside of dark sectors and outbreak missions. Prior to the outbreak system the infested had planets they dominated, but they never spread. The change pushed them out of most of the map, making them enemies you rarely faced. Thats the only reason they spread fast and in such range across the nodes.

      And the corpus could EASILY do the same.

      Another thing you seem to be forgetting is that Grineer use the SLOWEST form of producing an army, out of the three factions. The Corpus mass produce machines which can be programmed in seconds how to fight, Infested spread like a virus and fight using instincts and the Grineer are CLONED using DNA and then must be taught their own language, fighting and who their leaders are before going into combat, which makes them the slowest to produce and push out. This is proven when you see how the Corpus are at war with themselves, yet the Grineer still can't dominate them!

      In terms of raw power the Corpus easily overpower the Grineer. Their tech advances FAR faster and we see that with their units. The Grineer have stayed in near stasis by comparison to how many new units the corpus have pumped out. If past wars have taught us anything; it is that science is the most powerful tool for war. You can have the strongest units (Grineer actually don't) and the best strategists but at the end of the day dynamite does not compare to a TSAR bomb and that is the difference in technological advances when you look at the Grineer's tech vs the Corpus.

      The ENTIRE reason that the Grineer are even still around at this point is because Vor has helped them in advancing by leaps and bounds. He literally opened the way for Grineer to gain Orokin technology and without that they would be a long forgotten faction at this point because they are too ignorant to advance their own tech. They are a brute force faction and fall behind quickly because of it. They WERE, at one time, the most feared faction in the game but that time has long since gone and they are sitting near the bottom in-game power wise and non-existant lore wise, in terms of power.

      The Grieer are like raiders. All of their power comes from numbers and cheap tactics just like how the maniac stealths, attacks, stealths and repeats. You can also see the former in how thei summon packs of Kubrow's and Kavat's to overwhelm their enemies. It's because of this that it BAFFLES me as to how the Grineer gained complete immunity to most Warframe CC abilities (Executioners) like frost avalanche freeze or booben's Vortex/Bastille. Things that even the Corpus, who are significantly more advanced, can't do without nullifier bubbles. Which, is why i think DE literally pulled this event out of their ass, in some form of attempt to push us closer to the Queens, because Grineer shouldn't be anywhere near that level of tech.

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    • Shinigamiscall wrote:

      Which, is why i think DE literally pulled this event out of their ass, in some form of attempt to push us closer to the Queens, because Grineer shouldn't be anywhere near that level of tech.

      Shouldn't? What basis are you using to determine what level of tech they actually have? Just because they havent turned it into a gun doesnt mean they do not possess knowledge on it or how to counter it. They possess the Orokin's cloning technology that was used to create them to begin with, and have been actively searching for ways to improve it. They have found how to integrate Orokin tech with their own mechanisms. They have abuntant access to lost Orokin tech burried beneath Earth's forests and the seas of Uranus. They developed and readily utilize teleportation technology for a few of their units. They have been capturing Corpus tech and researching it in their vaults, allowing them to locate weaknesses in the units. Their units are strong enough to not require proper stocks on their firearms, using their strength alone to absorb the shots they deal out. They have developed a new breed of Grineer that are stronger and live longer than before, when they already were decimating the system. They recently developed microwave and plasma weaponry, despite all of the Tenno's efforts to prevent it. Lastly their tech is geared specifically to combat both Corpus and Infested, something the Corpus lack. It seems to me that they have plenty of technology. Yes they are not as advanced as the Corpus, but overwhelming numbers and heavy armor tends to counter advancements in technology that one may have. History has proven that plenty of times.

      The only reason we have seen new corpus units as of late is because prior to that the corpus were the most lacking in diversity for their units. DE made a push to beef up their numbers just like they did for the Infested and just like they are going to do for the Grineer. The corpus just managed to get interesting concepts out first and DE went with it. It isnt a sign that the corpus are suddenly finding their legs and getting around to fighting back. They are an arms dealer, they already had the manufacturing capability to create armies before this all happened. You forget that this is a video game, where when additions are made to the game they are retroactively changing the lore. A new unit for us doesnt always mean that in the game that unit is suddenly something brand new, never seen before. Some of the things they newly release are mentioned as being staple units, while others are in fact listed as new.

      Another thing is what basis are you using to determine just how quickly they are able to train their soldiers, or how many they are producing at once? It says on their page that they are produced in industrial quantities, doesnt sound all too different from the Corpus. Their weapons are produced quickly, numbering in the billions. The sea labs easily show us that they have hundreds of places on one planet alone for producing entire armies, and those are not the labs producing the majority of the Grineer we face, just the ones controled by Tyl Regor. Even in-game right now in recent releases they are flat out telling the player that the Grineer are still the most powerful faction currently, partially because yes the Corpus have internal conflicts with Alad V's defection and betrayal. The Grineer also have their own conflicts going on with defectors, which this event showed us. No the executioners arent some half-assed event plan either, and Im not sure where you are getting that it doesnt make sense that the Grineer units have reduced CC from warframe skills. The Grineer units are already stronger in body than the Corpus are, and nothing at all is stopping them from getting their hands on Corpus tech from nullifiers. Both Corpus and Grineer already possess replicated warframe abilities and countermeasures from their initial collection of Warframe components, hence the eximus units.

      People really dont give the Grineer credit just because they dont use laser technology, and yet despite that the Corpus already being a military arms dealer are getting whipped across the system. The Corpus were already more than capable of putting up a fight with the Grineer since the Corpus were the ones selling the Grineer tech and weapons. Heck, they are the ones that control the rail network, the entire method for fast travel between planets, and yet they still allow the Grineer to use it despite being at war. The Corpus may be advanced but they lack intelligence because they are blinded by their precious profits and are fragmented between their different corporations. The Grineer were already more than capable of having access to tech because of their dealings with the Corpus. All of that is taken into consideration before you even factor in the war profits and gains from salvaged tech.

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    • NeithanDiniem wrote:
       
      1."They have developed a new breed of Grineer that are stronger and live longer than before, when they already were decimating the system."

      2."Yes they are not as advanced as the Corpus, but overwhelming numbers and heavy armor tends to counter advancements in technology that one may have. History has proven that plenty of times."

      3."You forget that this is a video game, where when additions are made to the game they are retroactively changing the lore"

      4."Another thing is what basis are you using to determine just how quickly they are able to train their soldiers, or how many they are producing at once?"

      5. "People really dont give the Grineer credit just because they dont use laser technology, and yet despite that the Corpus already being a military arms dealer are getting whipped across the system."

      1. Decimating what "system". As far as i know the only factions that decimating anything are the Infested and the Sentients. The infested spread faster than we can kill them, and that is with the help of the other 2 primary factions.

      2.I would like you to point out where in history did such an event occur. As far as i know, every battle in which a civilization was far superior in technology they won, even when the opposing force had significantly larger numbers.

      3.No, you are the only one forgetting that.I have used In-game tests/logic and then you wanted lore, now your excuse is that lore changes constantly and can't be properly relied upon. So which is it? Either way, the Corpus still obliterate the Grineer within proper testing.

      4.I never stated either of those. Cloning tech takes a lot of time, and we see that in the sea labs, otherwise the tanks would be empty and all of them would come out fighting. While a powerful/fast virus can decimate a planet in less than 1 month. Also, i have yet to see the Grineer "stop" the spread of the Infested. If they can grant themselves immunity then why are there still grineer units being taken by the infested?

      5.Whipped across what system? They don't even have to band together and yet they are still a major force to be reckoned with! Their tech is constantly advancing and their units are likely the second fastest of the 3 just because of how quickly and easily it would be to mass produce machines the size of MOAs or Osprey. The Grineer are still Organic and as such must have their cells multiply, then learn and finally get put out onto the battlefield. Machines DO NOT have to do that and neither do the Infested. This is likely why DE gave them such large numbers, because otherwise they would have died off ages ago.

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    • Shinigamiscall wrote:
      <snip>

      1: The origin system, the solar system. The very thing that the game has told us from the begining that the Grineer were dominating. It is the very reason why Lotus began waking up the Tenno in the first place; to stop the Grineer from dominating the solar system and forming a new empire. As for the infested, last I checked they were still on Eris and the Derelicts. Nowhere else. Those are the only places they have hold over, and even then it is only in wrecked hulls of ships specifically placed there.

      2: Veitnam, British + Russian invasions of Afghanistan, WWII Germany, Hitler + Napoleon's invasions of Russia, Brittish at the battle of Islandwana, US Battle of Little Big Horn, US colonies war of independence, Mongols invasion of China, Persia's invasion of Scythia, Indo-Pakistani war... The list goes on and on. Theres plenty of sites online that list these military disasters, and plenty of the listed ones are prime equivalents to how the Corpus are handling the war against the Grineer; poorly. They are literally letting the Grineer use the only means of traveling between planets in a reasonable amount of time while the Grineer are at war with them, how much more evidence do you need for poor management and fragmented leadership?

      3: Try re-reading it with understanding being the key, not biased opinion leading you to immediatly discredit. This discussion is about lore, through and through. That lore changes as more information is given. That is how games that are in active development work. All games that have a lore about them do this as they add content.

      4: Cloning wouldnt take nearly as much time as you would think, especially since the cloned units are trained as they are in the tubes. Just take a look at the Tyl Regor battle, the enemies you face during the fight emerge from the tubes fully prepared and capable of combat. You haven't a clue how long it takes the Grineer to make those units start to finish, just as you haven't a clue on how many units the Corpus are capable of producing. And I hate to break it to you but I have yet to see a planet be overrun in this game either, despite how fast you seem to think it spreads. Again, the outbreaks are purely a gameplay mechanic for letting people experience the conflict gameplay with the infested as well as let people actually fight them in a sudo-lore effect of spreading before they get killed off. Im pretty sure that killing a few units of infested isnt the way to erradicate a virus/spore based mutagen, hence actually clearing a place of infestation isnt as simple as "kill the units."

      5: Again, the solar system, and again, the Grineer make weapons by the billions, wouldn't that also mean that they were producing clones at a rate that would require such weapons to be produced that quickly? The clones dont need to be trained seperately from their growth, as I mentioned in the above paragraph and as you can see in game already.

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    • NeithanDiniem wrote:.

      1 - The Grineer were going to win, but things change. Japan beating Russia shows the power of quick technological advancement (I know I've just plucked an example out of the air, but it's one I've been thinking about recently while playing a strategy game).

      2 - You said yourself, these were disasters. There are so many things that will change  an output of a war that technology is not an instant fix. One guy with a Gattling gun will not be able to take on the entire Roman army. However, it is still the single biggest factor (After numbers? Depends on the tech I suppose.).

      4 - Two points here: Firstly, depending on how much alteration they do (which before Regor, there wasn't much), clones are still human. This means that they are only truly ready to fight aged about 16, and will lose effectiveness after age 40. They have to spend 40% of their effective life growing. Even if their growth was accelerated (as in Star Wars), this proportion would be the same. Secondly, at what point is gameplay lore? You have just disregarded the units in game strength, but then used the in game Manic tubes as an example. We don't even know how long that Manic's been in there!

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    •  

      I believe i am done conversing with you, as you seem to be backing on your original statement. Originally, you refuted my respose because it was "in-game tests" rather than purely "lore" and yet now you are using in game, which you have disputed with me multiple times now.

      "And I hate to break it to you but I have yet to see a planet be overrun in this game either, despite how fast you seem to think it spreads" - "The entire premise of this discussion is which side would domiate the origin system if us tenno were not around. That isnt something that would happen naturally in game, that is however something that theoretically could happen within the game's story, which is based on that story's lore." - "Secondly, at what point is gameplay lore?" - "You forget that this is a video game, where when additions are made to the game they are retroactively changing the lore"

      Also, LORE does not simply "change" as content is added. IT changes because DE has no clue what they want to do with it and most of the LORE is community/fanmade. Look at the Souls series with some of the BEST lore out there. It has never just CHANGED. Added content is suppose to give MORE INSIGHT not change the entirety.

      Again though, i refuse to converse with someone that doesn't even know their own standpoint.

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    • Just a thought really, but the Infested would probably not even exist if the Tenno weren't around actually. There really is no lore as to what the Infested ACTUALLY are aside from some form of virus/parasite growth/nano machines, but considering we use Neurodes and Nano Spores (Which the game says are pieces of Infestation) to make Warframe parts, it could be plausible that the Infested were made from the same stuff Warframes were made of first. But that's just a theory I've been thinking up, who knows?

      Otherwise though the Infested would win no doubt about it, gonna stick with that all the way through.

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    • Shinigamiscall wrote:

      Also, LORE does not simply "change" as content is added. IT changes because DE has no clue what they want to do with it and most of the LORE is community/fanmade. Look at the Souls series with some of the BEST lore out there. It has never just CHANGED. Added content is suppose to give MORE INSIGHT not change the entirety.

      Point out to me where I said anything about the capabilities of the unit's combat strength in game with in-game testing as a basis for how effective they are and maybe I would validate the rest of that point with a reply.

      Souls is NOT a game in active development, it was completed fully and released to the public with no additional changes to the core game made. DLC being added and patches to fix errors or balance is not the same as a game in active development where the core of the game is altered. Comparing the Souls games to Warframe is like comparing a circle to a square; Yes they are both shapes but they are structured completely differently. You cannot even compare the two on equal footing. So yea, Im done as well since you are making rediculous comparisons.

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    • Roypel wrote:

      1 - The Grineer were going to win, but things change. Japan beating Russia shows the power of quick technological advancement (I know I've just plucked an example out of the air, but it's one I've been thinking about recently while playing a strategy game).

      2 - You said yourself, these were disasters. There are so many things that will change  an output of a war that technology is not an instant fix. One guy with a Gattling gun will not be able to take on the entire Roman army. However, it is still the single biggest factor (After numbers? Depends on the tech I suppose.).

      4 - Two points here: Firstly, depending on how much alteration they do (which before Regor, there wasn't much), clones are still human. This means that they are only truly ready to fight aged about 16, and will lose effectiveness after age 40. They have to spend 40% of their effective life growing. Even if their growth was accelerated (as in Star Wars), this proportion would be the same. Secondly, at what point is gameplay lore? You have just disregarded the units in game strength, but then used the in game Manic tubes as an example. We don't even know how long that Manic's been in there!

      1: As of now nothing has been said in game otherwise that is even hinting at the Grineer loosing ground in the war. More than likely U19 will expand on the Grineer more, so we may learn more then.

      2: Being the biggest factor doesnt mean that you will still win the battle.

      4: The Grineer live incredibly shortened lives. How short that is exactly is unknown, but for certain the Grineer are not sitting in those tubes for anything even close to 16 years, nor living 40. They do not grow like normal humans do, and as it is said in game they have a decaying genome leading to even shorter lives. If you say that the growth is accelerated, which I agree with, then the proportion would change. The growth is accelerated though, not the entire lifetime, so the proportion would indeed change despite them already living shortened lives. And I didnt discredit their strength, in fact I presented it as a part of their people. I discredited their in-game stats as the sole means to determine who would win in a fair fight, which doesnt matter here since the Grineer are rarely in a fair fight of numbers.

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    • NeithanDiniem wrote: ...

      I agree with your first two points. Point one has not happened because the Tenno are around to keep the balance and the Corpus have so far not capitalised on any advancements they've made. Point two is correct, but meaningless as I pointed out because we do not know all other factors...

      4 - Where are you getting the fast growth but normal aging from? By Strength I meant in game stats, and though I agree a one on one doesn't represent a war. It's still confusing what you are presenting as Lore and not...

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    • Roypel wrote:
      I agree with your first two points. Point one has not happened because the Tenno are around to keep the balance and the Corpus have so far not capitalised on any advancements they've made. Point two is correct, but meaningless as I pointed out because we do not know all other factors...

      4 - Where are you getting the fast growth but normal aging from? By Strength I meant in game stats, and though I agree a one on one doesn't represent a war. It's still confusing what you are presenting as Lore and not...

      If you accelerate the growth stage during the developmental process that doesnt mean that the rest of the lifespan that the organism has is further accelerated. The acceleration would only apply to the growth stage, when they are in the tubes basically. Think similar to how the Avatar bodies were grown in Jame Cameron's movie; they were accelerated during development to reach maturity in a far shorter time span. That doesnt mean though that the acceleration continues after they leave the pod. Likewise the Grineer could grow their clones in a year or two and they come out as fully developed soldiers. Yes they have a degraded lifespan but that isnt from their accelerated growth, its their genome deteriorating. As for their strength, that is a part of their make up that their bodies are simply physically strong. Just looking at them youd see that they are built very differently than the Corpus are. Most of their primary guns lack full stocks, so they take the full brunt of their weapon's recoil with their arms alone. Most Tenno primaries have proper stocks, where as the Corpus's weaponry doesnt require them.

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    • NeithanDiniem wrote:

      If you accelerate the growth stage during the developmental process that doesnt mean that the rest of the lifespan that the organism has is further accelerated. The acceleration would only apply to the growth stage, when they are in the tubes basically. Think similar to how the Avatar bodies were grown in Jame Cameron's movie; they were accelerated during development to reach maturity in a far shorter time span. That doesnt mean though that the acceleration continues after they leave the pod. Likewise the Grineer could grow their clones in a year or two and they come out as fully developed soldiers. Yes they have a degraded lifespan but that isnt from their accelerated growth, its their genome deteriorating. As for their strength, that is a part of their make up that their bodies are simply physically strong. Just looking at them youd see that they are built very differently than the Corpus are. Most of their primary guns lack full stocks, so they take the full brunt of their weapon's recoil with their arms alone. Most Tenno primaries have proper stocks, where as the Corpus's weaponry doesnt require them.

      The Grineer were the Orokin's slaves at one point too, most likely bred to be stronger and more durable anyway as well as being made sterile permanently by the Orokin.

      Funny enough, Tenno weapons don't even need stocks, considering our Warframes are robotic suits by nature and as such are already stronger than most others (The recoil in the game is a game mechanic). Most Grineer weapons though have no stocks because that would require more materials or different molds. For example, the Sobek only has a stock because no doubt it's body mold is one large piece, as well as being a shotgun.

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    • I really don't know who would win. They all have their own unique advantages and perks that make them a force to be reckoned with in the correct situation. The Infested can spready rapidly and infest enemy forces, turning them into one of their own. The Grineer have an almost-endless amount of soldiers and supplies to send out into battle, turning battles against them into a non-stop onslaught of blood and bullets. The Corpus have advanced technology and weaponry that could easily subdue the crude and simplistic equipment that the Grineer use, and could tear apart and rip the flesh of any Infested, and the Tenno have their advanced Warframe suits and ritualistic weapons based off of Orokin design, who are widely considered to be the most technologically advanced race to ever exist in the Origin Systems. Lastly, the Sentients and their advanced robotic soldiers are incredibly dangerous for any enemy due to their ability to adapt to an enemy's damage, making them immune to their attacks. Even so, however, a clever soldier from any of the enemy factions would know to bring multiple weapons with different damage types and capabilities to continue damaging them until they die.

      I genuinely can't decide who would win in the end, because they all have a fair chance. I'm leaving my argument at that.

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    • I think the grinner will win whitout issues,people say the grinner are stupid or something like that,a race that survived since the orokin era has its merits,another thing why do u think that grinner weaponry are less advance?becase they are not lasers?u make weapons to be effective not to be modern and we can see that grinner weaponry are more effective than corpus counter parts,and they are more,

      Infested have weakness,if they cannot kill an enemy it doesnt become an infested and the grinner have heavy armor,making them the hardest to kill of all three,(looking at you bombard)

      Another thing that i want to add its that people understimate the tecnology of the grinner,if they had low tech how they manage to build the fomorian ships?think about that

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    • This is set in a space faring age, all technology is relative. The Grineer have some impressive technology, but are mostly stagnant. The Corpus on the other hand, are obsessed with R&D, so are pulling ever further ahead. Do you think the Corpus are behind just because they haven't built an over the top battleship?

      We actually have no way of telling how the Infested spread. It may not need killing (in fact it probably doesn't seeing how intact their bodies are)...

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    • "The Grineer ... are mostly stagnant" some could argue that they are even decadent. Even with some sparks of genius appearing once in a while, it's only slowing down their decline a little bit. The Grineer already reached their apex a while ago, the only way left for them is down. What they have is the sheer number of forces, they outnumber any other power in the Sol system by a landslide.

      The Corpus are more prudent in terms of powerplay, they seem like they don't want to draw too much attention to them, except for a couple of mad scientists or filthy rich magnates. But what they lack in human number, they make up in expendable robots and cutting edge technology.

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    • Roypel wrote:
      The Grineer have some impressive technology, but are mostly stagnant.

      Except the Grineer have created some of the most powerful weapons in the system, namely the fomorean ships, and have actively updated their cloning technology to produce stronger clones. People give the Corpus such huge credit for development recently only because DE decided "Hey, the Corpus need some new units, we've been really neglecting them recently" and suddenly people canonize that clearly they are advancing faster. Its like people dont even remember when all of the factions only had three units each.

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    • They are presented differently in game. For example, we had an entire operation (event) to stop the development of the Oxium Ospreys. The biggest difference in my mind though are the bosses - many Corpus ones are 'prototypes' of new frontline units...

      And you do realise you just said Grineer are advanced because they are the only ones to have an in game superwarship, but the Corpus aren't advanced just because they have more units recently - perhaps there's a Corpus ship in the works... (on that note, we don't even know how the two fare in space combat).

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    • Roypel wrote:
      And you do realise you just said Grineer are advanced because they are the only ones to have an in game superwarship, but the Corpus aren't advanced just because they have more units recently - perhaps there's a Corpus ship in the works... (on that note, we don't even know how the two fare in space combat).


      We know quite well how a Fomorean fares in space combat. Every destroyed Corpus ship you fly through in AW was destroyed by a Fomorean, and they destroyed several of our relays. We know the Corpus consider the ships as powerful based on the event dialogs that lead up to their release.

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    • Roypel wrote:
      This is set in a space faring age, all technology is relative. The Grineer have some impressive technology, but are mostly stagnant. The Corpus on the other hand, are obsessed with R&D, so are pulling ever further ahead. Do you think the Corpus are behind just because they haven't built an over the top battleship?

      We actually have no way of telling how the Infested spread. It may not need killing (in fact it probably doesn't seeing how intact their bodies are)...

      Making a battleship takes a lot of tech to be build,generator,weapon systems,the shield system propulsion etc

      And about grinner being decadent,have u thought that the grinner maybe are intended to be like that?if they are short life they cannot threat the power,the sisters maybe planed this ,that way u dont have competition in the power,

      and we forget a lot of weapons of the grinner are really powerfull:grattler,ogris,ignis,marelok etc

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    • That's why I said that technology was a relative scale - they are advanced enough to have powerful battleships and cloning. However, it is implied that they are behind the Corpus (who stole more of the Orokin stuff), and are developing slower.

      Perhaps the queens do keep order by crippling the military both physically and mentally, but this is not a good arguement for the advancement of the faction!

      They have powerful weapons, but so do the other factions. Weapons are a gameplay device, so care must be taken when comparing them. Overall, I think the Grineer and Corpus usable weaponry is reasonably balanced.

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    • This would definitely be an Infestation victory.

      While the Corpus and the Grineer can definitely hold out for an extended period of time due to how advanced they are, the Infestation can absorb whatever punishment is thrown at them and spit it back at them. The Grineer will be the first to fall as, since it has already been outlined, they have the slowest ways of reproducing. Cloning takes time, and said clones need to learn language, combat, and commands. Clones also can defect and turn traitor, shown with the leader of the Steel Meridian. Since the Grineer cannot churn out evil clone babies fast enough, the Infestation can absorb and turn their own soldiers against them.

      The Corpus, however, mass produce proxies. Machines can be programmed with everything they need to learn in a matter of seconds, and machines can be mass produced easily. However, the infestation will turn this against them. Machines and ships can now be infestated due to that tart Alad V. Infestation can easily infest machines as they lack the reactions of a living being and won't know whether or not to run away when their peers are being infested. This will obviously make the Infestation grow faster as they don't need to chase down fleeing opponents - dinner is practically served on a platter here.

      Plus, you'd have to think about the psychological effects of the Infestation - it's scary. Nobody will be willing to fight it and nobody appeals to becoming a zombified mass of flesh. These effects will be felt among the two factions.

      Also, think about how victims are biologically augmented when Infested. A normal Corpus can't really jump, but when Infested and turned into a Leaper, they can leap. Infested are made tougher, faster, and stronger than their unInfested counterparts. They are also given certain abilities with their new forms.

      Ah, and that reminds me. By example of the Boiler and that Leech-spouting thing, Infestation seems to be self sufficient. Boilers can shoot out infested pods at will that explode and form a new Infested form, and when it dies a Boiler can spawn many more forms. Who's to say that existing boilers with nothing to do won't mindlessly spawn more Infestation to end the solar system with?


      It seems without the Tenno to keep the balance of power, the Infestation will consume the system.

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    • It's a good point about the Boilers. If them making new Infested is intended (I hope and expect it's just a gameplay feature), then that also throws out the window the need for a host or input of any kind. The Infested can and will reproduce unchecked...

      Your point about slow cloning is missing something though. The Grineer currently have the infrastructure for larger scale production than the Corpus. Even if a single clone takes more time and resources to make, the Grineer currently have the capacity to make more. Perhaps if the Corpus fully mobilise the situation would change, but for now the Grineer have the numbers...

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    • Whoever can bring the most guardian eximuses together will win.

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    • Seing as only the Corpus have Gaurdians (perhaps their corrupted versions too), there's no competition.

      However, I think a Venemous swarm would be worse.

      Back to the previos arguements, there's been a huge new batch of lore in those Cephalon fragments. For me the general gist is that the Grineer are fighting to stay on top while the Corpus are the power behing the scenes. It also gives the impression that the Sentients (now we know what they are) pose a bigger threat to the Corpus than the Grineer.

      One thing I don't quite understand though: the Infestation was created to counter the Sentients; the Infestation could only convert organic matter; the Sentients are not organic. How could they have been a threat to the Sentients?

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    • MOAs aren't organic either and they can still be corrupted.

      But even without that, I think it's a matter of swarming tactics. By sending tons of infected, all with different attacks and elements and styles, the Sentients wouldn't be able to adapt to them.

      Of course, apparently, the Sentients couldn't adapt to arrows and swords either, so... who knows?

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    • Tyrasis wrote:
      MOAs aren't organic either and they can still be corrupted.

      But even without that, I think it's a matter of swarming tactics. By sending tons of infected, all with different attacks and elements and styles, the Sentients wouldn't be able to adapt to them.

      Of course, apparently, the Sentients couldn't adapt to arrows and swords either, so... who knows?

      MOA can be infested only after the creation of the mutalist strain by Alad V, in the days of the old war mutalist didn't existed so yeah pretty pointless against the Sentients.

      Maybe now with the mutalist around we can see in the future some infested sentient and they should be god awful.

      And the fact that they didn't adapt to swords and arrows is because they aren't technological, weapons like any laser that they can backfire at you under their control.

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    • Roypel wrote:

      One thing I don't quite understand though: the Infestation was created to counter the Sentients; the Infestation could only convert organic matter; the Sentients are not organic. How could they have been a threat to the Sentients?

      The way I see it the Infested weren't actually meant as a bio-weapon by the Orokin, the Sentients probably found a place where Warframes were raised and built, destroyed it, and that released the Technocyte nanites who then proceeded to eat everything nearby. (The lore in the game is wrong, maybe an oversight by DE?)

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    • Tyrasis wrote:

      Of course, apparently, the Sentients couldn't adapt to arrows and swords either, so... who knows?

      They are more vurnerable to those types of weapons than the advanced weapons the Orokin had. Really, old school arrows and swords are their weakness because you're physically assaulting their body and making their bodies adapt to that by changing structure (The way they are in-game right now doesn't really do them justice, because they should only have limited amounts of adaptations)

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    • Vauban Prime wrote: And the fact that they didn't adapt to swords and arrows is because they aren't technological, weapons like any laser that they can backfire at you under their control.

      Backfire? Sentients don't make weapons backfire, they adapt to the damage. I'm not sure how it's easier to adapt to the burning of a laser than the piercing of an arrow.

      It's just fridge logic for why space ninjas exist.

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    • Tyrasis wrote:

      Backfire? Sentients don't make weapons backfire, they adapt to the damage. I'm not sure how it's easier to adapt to the burning of a laser than the piercing of an arrow.

      It's just fridge logic for why space ninjas exist.

      Well what if I tell you that during my playthrough of the second dream quest when I encounted the first sentients ,I had the Diriga sentinel equipped, turned on me and basically zapped me to death, my friend had to destroy it.

      I don't know if it was intended or not but I guess is a cool way to don't bring technology in sentient battle, of course weapons don't backfire at you...yet, but at least in my expirience sentinel does.

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    • 66.67.69.49 wrote:

      The way I see it the Infested weren't actually meant as a bio-weapon by the Orokin, the Sentients probably found a place where Warframes were raised and built, destroyed it, and that released the Technocyte nanites who then proceeded to eat everything nearby. (The lore in the game is wrong, maybe an oversight by DE?)


      They literally are called weapons of the Orokin in-game. They are also said to have been created by the Orokin as weapons. That leave very little room for interpretation.

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    • Vauban Prime wrote:

      Well what if I tell you that during my playthrough of the second dream quest when I encounted the first sentients ,I had the Diriga sentinel equipped, turned on me and basically zapped me to death, my friend had to destroy it.

      Then I'd probably say that you're the only person I've ever heard of that's had that happen to them.

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    • NeithanDiniem wrote:
      66.67.69.49 wrote:
      The way I see it the Infested weren't actually meant as a bio-weapon by the Orokin, the Sentients probably found a place where Warframes were raised and built, destroyed it, and that released the Technocyte nanites who then proceeded to eat everything nearby. (The lore in the game is wrong, maybe an oversight by DE?)

      They literally are called weapons of the Orokin in-game. They are also said to have been created by the Orokin as weapons. That leave very little room for interpretation.

      Except with what we're finding out as time goes on is that it's as I said, that part of lore is wrong and was never updated. The only feasible explanation is that the Archmedian Corpus backstabbed the Orokin High Council and the plan was for the Sentients to come back all along

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    • Tyrasis wrote:

      Vauban Prime wrote:

      Well what if I tell you that during my playthrough of the second dream quest when I encounted the first sentients ,I had the Diriga sentinel equipped, turned on me and basically zapped me to death, my friend had to destroy it.
      Then I'd probably say that you're the only person I've ever heard of that's had that happen to them.

      Radiation proc on Sentinel, while rare, does happen from time to time

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    • 66.67.69.49 wrote:

      Radiation proc on Sentinel, while rare, does happen from time to time

      Yeah that happen too but once the debuff is gone it stops, in my case it became something like a shadow same as the one of the Nekros ultimate.

      Maybe was a bug of day one second dream but it was fantastic if it was intended.

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    • 66.67.69.49 wrote:

      Except with what we're finding out as time goes on is that it's as I said, that part of lore is wrong and was never updated. The only feasible explanation is that the Archmedian Corpus backstabbed the Orokin High Council and the plan was for the Sentients to come back all along

      How is that part of the lore wrong when it is still arguably a recent addition? And where are you getting that the plan all along was for it to return? I've heard of grasping at straws but this is taking the cake here.

      How would he know what the sentient would become if it adapts to its environment, and the environment it was sent to was an entirely different solar system no living creature from the Orokin system had ever been to? Thats about as logical as throwing paint at a canvas in a dark room for a random amount of time and expecting it to turn out to look like the Mona Lisa when you switch the lights on.

      Plus, the corpus would be killed just as much as the Orokin were by the Sentients because to the Sentients the corpus are Orokin. The Corpus we know of as a faction didnt exist when the sentients were sent to Tau, they were just civilians in the Orokin empire. Hunhow even called Alad V an Orokin because to him, Alad V is still an Orokin citizen.

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    • 73.140.210.118 wrote:
      Knowing what we do about the 3 main opposing factions (Grineer, Corpus, Infested), who do you think would come to dominate the Origin System if the Tenno were to suddenly vanish?  I mean there are other factions, like the Corrupted and "Wild" and the Sentients, but the Corrupted never leave the towers, Kubrows and sandskates are not developing interstellar travel any time soon (at least, I think), and we simply don't know enough about the Sentients at this time to discenr their potential.

      My personal guess is the Infested, as they seem to multiply far faster than the other factions, and with Alad V's mutalist strain, virtually everything can become Infested.


      Lol of course the tenno

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    • 79.107.206.50 wrote:

      Lol of course the tenno

      Someone didnt read the first sentence of the OP.

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    • NeithanDiniem wrote:
      66.67.69.49 wrote:
      Except with what we're finding out as time goes on is that it's as I said, that part of lore is wrong and was never updated. The only feasible explanation is that the Archmedian Corpus backstabbed the Orokin High Council and the plan was for the Sentients to come back all along
      How is that part of the lore wrong when it is still arguably a recent addition? And where are you getting that the plan all along was for it to return? I've heard of grasping at straws but this is taking the cake here.

      How would he know what the sentient would become if it adapts to its environment, and the environment it was sent to was an entirely different solar system no living creature from the Orokin system had ever been to? Thats about as logical as throwing paint at a canvas in a dark room for a random amount of time and expecting it to turn out to look like the Mona Lisa when you switch the lights on.

      Plus, the corpus would be killed just as much as the Orokin were by the Sentients because to the Sentients the corpus are Orokin. The Corpus we know of as a faction didnt exist when the sentients were sent to Tau, they were just civilians in the Orokin empire. Hunhow even called Alad V an Orokin because to him, Alad V is still an Orokin citizen.

      Except the Orokin releasing something like the Infested on the Sentients and hoping it would work is even dumber, that's really throwing paint in a dark room. I doubt the Orokin were that stupid, which is why I'm suggesting the Technocyte got loose on more natural terms, i.e. a Sentient destroying a place where the Technocyte was held. Remember, the Orokin did use Corrupted units even before Warframes were made, and since Ancient Healers are Corrupted too, it can be assumed the Orokin already had a strain of the Infestation.

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    • 66.67.69.49 wrote:
      Except the Orokin releasing something like the Infested on the Sentients and hoping it would work is even dumber, that's really throwing paint in a dark room. I doubt the Orokin were that stupid, which is why I'm suggesting the Technocyte got loose on more natural terms, i.e. a Sentient destroying a place where the Technocyte was held. Remember, the Orokin did use Corrupted units even before Warframes were made, and since Ancient Healers are Corrupted too, it can be assumed the Orokin already had a strain of the Infestation.

      No, the Orokin used Dax soldiers before the Tenno, not corrupted units. The corrupted actually do not exist in the lore entries as of yet outside of slight info provided through the VO, and nothing says when the Neural Sentries were first used. And the infested were released against the Sentients but as the Sentients fought back, naturally vessels were destroyed. Hunhow invaded and attacked the Orokin system directly, so some of those destroyed vessels occurred here. Some of those vessels had to have carried the infestation units they were using, the Orokin Derelict proves that much. So yea, that is likely the only way the infested broke loose. No one said they just let them go out the infested doggy-door at the lab or something. It was a weapon that backfired during the war. The Neural sentry can corrupt almost any unit it detects, so it having control over ancients, which as far as we know are infested Orokin equipped with a Lora Device, isnt something special really. And the reason why they had the technocyte virus is because they created it.

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    • NeithanDiniem wrote:

      No, the Orokin used Dax soldiers before the Tenno, not corrupted units. The corrupted actually do not exist in the lore entries as of yet outside of slight info provided through the VO, and nothing says when the Neural Sentries were first used. 

      There is a small hint in the Arid Eviscerator synthesis imprint, where the two Orokin cornered by the infestation in an orokin tower when argued about fighting their way through says: with pistol and no corrupted?

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    • Small one I missed then, so that would be the first time corrupted are mentioned in lore, which at that time took place after the Tenno were a thing. The other points all still stand.

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    • Vauban Prime wrote:
      NeithanDiniem wrote:

      No, the Orokin used Dax soldiers before the Tenno, not corrupted units. The corrupted actually do not exist in the lore entries as of yet outside of slight info provided through the VO, and nothing says when the Neural Sentries were first used. 

      There is a small hint in the Arid Eviscerator synthesis imprint, where the two Orokin cornered by the infestation in an orokin tower when argued about fighting their way through says: with pistol and no corrupted?

      That's what I mean. The only thing we don't know is if that's during the Old War or the Great Plague. Also, with the recent-ish new Orokin moon spy mission at Pavlov, which features a Tenno training course as one of the data vaults, you can clearly see there is a room of Corrupted units, which have been placed there purposefully back when the Orokin were still around, they didn't just wander in. My guess is that the Corrupted were some form of prisoners, but instead of rotting in jail or death for their crimes they were "repurposed" Wouldn't put it past the Orokin, especially with what they did to Ordis and probably all cephalons (The lore that goes with the new cephalon fragments) I still stand by saying that the Techocyte escaped, but after thinking about it and reading around on the official forum, it seems DE likes to make their lore very obvious while also making it confusing, so I had a thought. What if the Infestation is a bio weapon, but they actually mean the Warframes when the Operator says that? For one, I doubt the Orokin and their scientists let the Tenno know just what the Warframes were made off initially, and for two, it would make sense that the Infestation could be all the rejects from the Warfame project that hadn't been terminated at that time or technocyte that hadn't been filled into a frame yet.

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    • It's gonna be Grineers of course.

      Corpus got nothing big but Razorback, then Hyena packs, then nothing else!

      Oh? You got Scramba, Nullufiers, whatever Tech with a rapid laser gun?


      Grineers got Formorian Ship that is so big like a big Apple against worms-like Corpus ship! What you gonna do to me with your Petit Razorback, huh? Oh? You have Scrambas? I am sorry! Those are against Tenno, not Grineers! Oh, look what I have! G3s! I also got some spare bolts, who say those are only for G3s? Even Warframes get affected as well! Needless to say about Corpus.

      Infestation? Fear not, we have Hyekka master that fits the clean-up duties from now on.

      Space Fights? Formorian! I choose you! (Corpus chose to flee away but failed, Formorian used giant laser beam! It was effective! Corpus ship is... is... where is it? Vaporized of course.)

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    • Sentients XD

      However, not counting the sentients, Grineer would win. They have created some of the best weapons in the game-Jat Kittag, Tonkor, Atomos, Nukor-ish, Kulstar, Acrid and so much more. Without Tenno there will be absolutely no Zanuka. Without Tenno, Fomorians would rapidly remove corpus and infested ships from existence. Without Tenno, Regor will make the Grineer immune to infested, hopefully. Like the above post, Hyekkas and Hyekka Master will exterminate infested pretty well. The Corpus tho, Nef Anyo's belief in teh void seperates him and Alad V is part of the Corpus again only because of Tenno. The Corpus don't really work together and Nullies will get disintegrated by OP Bombards/Napalms/Heavies/Manics/OMG Y.


      Finally, the Grineer might have developed LARGE-SCALE JET MICROWAVE TONKORS to blow up Europa. All Grineer bosses have different jobs, although sometimes having disagreements, most of Kela's executioners have relation with other Grineer powers. The sheer amount of clones the Grineer will create is insane. Let's just wait for more info from The War Within.....

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    • 112.209.207.143 wrote: snip

      love how you didn't mention bursas, they pretty much walk all over every Grineer unit, the Corpus would win a ground war, churning out more proxies faster than the Grineer birth out clones

      a space war, while currently Fomorians dominate, if the Corpus were unified and actually dedicated to the war, I have no doubt they would develop ships designed to counter Fomorians

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    • Apoc FTW wrote:

      love how you didn't mention bursas, they pretty much walk all over every Grineer unit, the Corpus would win a ground war, churning out more proxies faster than the Grineer birth out clones

      a space war, while currently Fomorians dominate, if the Corpus were unified and actually dedicated to the war, I have no doubt they would develop ships designed to counter Fomorians

      Thats the issue though, they aren't unified.

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    • NeithanDiniem wrote: Thats the issue though, they aren't unified.

      yes right now they aren't, but this topic is a hypothetical "what if", if the Grineer declared total war upon the entirety of the Corpus, or threated their profiteering, the Corpus would likely unite, that is, if the Board unanimously decided fighting back was the best option

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    • Corpus, for only one reason. They are intelligent. Grineer have the sheer numbers but their brains are the size of peanuts. Infested come in close though. They have the number and a hive mindset. Corpus have had a tough time to keep them at bay (detroyed Corpus stations).

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    • 14.192.147.74 wrote:
      Corpus, for only one reason. They are intelligent. Grineer have the sheer numbers but their brains are the size of peanuts. Infested come in close though. They have the number and a hive mindset. Corpus have had a tough time to keep them at bay (detroyed Corpus stations).


      Building a fleet of ships as powerful as the Fomorean, Maintaining hundreds of underwater sea labs, Taking advantage of the stupidity of their enemies (namely the Corpus), nearly successfully undoing the genetic flaw the Orokin purposfully instilled in them, all that sounds pretty intelligent-requiring to me. The bulk troops may not have it but whomever is commanding them (hint, they are not Grineer genetically) is the brains behind it all. Cant really say the Corpus have anyone of intelligence commanding them since they are so fractured.

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    • The Corpus are divided much like companies of today, because they have different intersts, products, and ideas on what to do. It isn't really represented in the game, but I wouldn't be surprised if we are actually hitting different companies every time we attack the Corpus, like Jupiter is one cult, the clean-up on Europa another, and so on

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    • I have to ask, at what point would us Tenno vanish? Just us existing has led to many of the major events that occur in the Warframe universe.

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    • It's a "what if?" scenario

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    • Apoc FTW wrote:

      112.209.207.143 wrote: snip

      love how you didn't mention bursas, they pretty much walk all over every Grineer unit, the Corpus would win a ground war, churning out more proxies faster than the Grineer birth out clones

      a space war, while currently Fomorians dominate, if the Corpus were unified and actually dedicated to the war, I have no doubt they would develop ships designed to counter Fomorians

      Hmmmmmm, Bursas must be the Corpus' saving grace for this war...


      Vay Hek: "Screw those hideous monster machines, lets just disintegrate all of Pluto with our fomorians. Problem solved"

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    • Also if we weren't here,

      1. Tyl Regor and another 5,000,000 Tyl Regors

      2. Fomorians, Fomrians, Fomorians again

      3. Anyone who mentions Grineer Dna decay must've never been to Uranus

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    • It seems that all the 'If we weren't here' points have had the general theme of helping the Grineer, usually through Tyl Regor. You also have to consider though, the other things the Tenno have stopped. Imagine if the Corpus had perfected the Razorback and put it into production...

      The recent addition of cephalon fragments has shed more light on the lore, and though I may be biased it seems to back up my views. The Grineer's struggle with their decay is mentione. But the thing I found most interesting was the description of one of the ice planets (Europa?), basically saying that the debris was a large spacecraft - easily comparable to a Fomorian. Why they are wrecks I do not know, perhaps they were simply merchant ships?

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    • Roypel wrote:
      It seems that all the 'If we weren't here' points have had the general theme of helping the Grineer, usually through Tyl Regor. You also have to consider though, the other things the Tenno have stopped. Imagine if the Corpus had perfected the Razorback and put it into production...

      The recent addition of cephalon fragments has shed more light on the lore, and though I may be biased it seems to back up my views. The Grineer's struggle with their decay is mentione. But the thing I found most interesting was the description of one of the ice planets (Europa?), basically saying that the debris was a large spacecraft - easily comparable to a Fomorian. Why they are wrecks I do not know, perhaps they were simply merchant ships?

      Hmmmmmm, come to think about it, many proxies could come to mass production if it wasn't for us.

      Well, the Grineer can just blow those factories to smithereens, right? Most likely they were merchant ships because that's the corpus, and why would they have battleships like that? Also, Sling-stone event was something that, if the Tenno hadn't intervened, would be a very massive hit to the Corpus as they greatly underestimate the Grineer, not aware of what monsters fomorians can be. In loving memory of a bunch of relays

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    • Shinigamiscall wrote:
      How was this ever even a discussion?

      Corpus would come out on top with ease. 

      If this was back when the game first started then i would say grineer but the tides have completely switched since then. It use to be: Grineer, Infested, Corpus but now it is Corpus, Infested, Grineer.

      The Grineer would be obliterated because they are susceptible to, literally, everything. The Corpus can disable their buffs, block bullets with Ice Eximus Nully (double shield OP)  and stomp them in terms of Armor with Bursa (which can easilly take on an army of grineer alone since their missle barage is far stronger than a Grineer Bombard). Let's not even mention the vast amount of power Sapping Ospreys have >.> Just a few of those on the battlefield can destroy entire squads in one go.

      They would also lose to the Infested because the Grineer units have never been known to be "fast", except for the Maniac. The Infested work very similarly to the Zerg and they come in droves, very quickly. The Grineer would simply be over-run, even with their vast number of clones. We could say that the Grineer have "Kavats" and that by lore they consume infested but i have yet to see the Kavats win against the Juggernaught. I know Kavats are a pain in the Arse because they can one shot frames with low armor/shields/heatlh but doing that to a Jug is another story.

      In the end Grineer, no matter how strong they get in dmg, are simply way too far behind the other factions in tech/versatility. This is why Grineer are a literal joke in Sortie because we can just walk all over them with warframe abilities. Infested have Disruptors which reduce the duration of things like Avalanche freeze dur roughly 75% each one and corpus have nullifier bubbles either from Nullies or Bursa which grants them immunity and even removes stat effects like Nyx Chaos upon entering the bubble.

      Regarding Kavats https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75pOKYvKjtQ

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    • My Letter to Corpus supporters:

      They MAY win if they produce those abominations in time, but I believe the Tenno have disrupted more Grineer progress than Corpus (not including Salad V). How are the Grineer rn? Still holding up pretty well. Besides, the Corpus were my first choice, but then I realized that just because they are extremely terrfying to the Tenno, the Grineer can nicely turn them to some Greedy Milk with A REALLY MASSIVE TONKOR ATTACHED TO A BALOOOOOOR FOMURIAAAN.

      Besides, the Grineer wish for total system control, while Corpus want to satisfy their greed.

      (Simulacrum needs to have AW stuff)

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    • Personally, I think that it could be between the Grineer & the Infested, with the ultimate victor being decided by the Corpus.

      How?

      The Corpus are particularly advanced when it comes to technology. Such technology expertise would eventually lead to them discovering/creating the cure against the Infested.

      Take this scenario.

      The Corpus discover the cure. If I'm correct, the Grineer have stolen technology from the Corpus and used it for their own benefit. So, once the cure is created, the Grineer come into play, stealing the cure through force and using it to clone a new generation of Grineer; one that is immune to the Infested.

      The Grineer then wipe out the Corpus over time, leaving only the Infested. With their immunity to the Infested, the Infested can no longer spread as fast as it once could, which means the Grineer can "outgrow" the Infested, and ultimately wipe them out.

      However, if the Corpus do not discover the cure, or if the Infested wipe them out before they can, the Infested would spread too quickly, swarming the Grineer and ultimately wiping them out.

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    • Infested...

      Without proper defense against toxin for the Grineer and Electricity for the Corpus, the Infested would win without a doubt considering how much the swarm has grown because of Alad V's intervention. Ancient Disruptors give it's allies the ability to infuse their claws, maws and weaponry with electricity, and Toxic Ancients hit so hard they could blow a hole in a space ship, not to mention infuse toxin into allies' attacks just as much as the Disruptors. Not to mention, they are now capable of infesting Corpus robots, which means all of their MOAs and Ospreys used against them, if downed, can and will become their allies.

      Remember, the Grineer are weak to Toxin and Gas, especially Corrosive. Toxic Ancients are walls of flesh that dont stop fighting either way, and considering how hard they hit, their aura alone would weaken the Grineer, and while Chargers, Leapers and Runners meatshield for it (and do Slash procs), an Ancient could hit enemies that are giving other Infested a struggle and thereby eliminate any threats. In addition, the Infested could bring Infested Corpus allies such as the mutalist Ospreys to carry Electric Crawlers to zap enemies and possibly stun them, and then proceed to lay toxic mayhem all over the battlefield and kill the Grineer in almost an instant.

      Corpus are weak to Electricity, thus the reason why Disruptors and the other two Ancients alone, along with some Crawler variants, robots and Ospreys, that they win. Disruptors can once again infuse electricity into allies' attacks, which means Chargers can now tear through both shield and flesh with ease, while MOAs can attack from afar by laying down lethal acid traps and release swarms of Infested Nanomites that deal damage over time, which disables almost all Corpus shields from regen while the Swarm is active. Crawlers can throw grenades, shoot electricity and stun hordes of Corpus while others rush in to finish the job, and of course put more toxin into the air. The only real threats to the Infested are the Bursas, as they have nukes, shockwave generators stronger then the ones the Infested MOAs were equipped with, nullifier shields (which are useless except to block Swarm MOAs), flashbangs (Gives the corpus time to open fire), and practical riot shields in front of them so they can sit down and open fire while others try and scratch them to pieces. Still, after a long fight they can go down, become Infested, and proceed to wreck mayhem on it's former friends.

      In the end I believe the Infested would win as they assimilate anything and everything into the horde, and in the case of Jordas Golem, ​entire ships​ become usable as weapons as Jordas used the Balor Formorian's lasers, homing energy spheres, flying shredders and even releasing more Mutalist Ospreys to combat other enemies in space, which could easily fry the systems of both factions' ships, spray acid onto flying Corpus Crewmen and even just straight up absorb said enemies into their arsenal of lethal adaptation. Although the Sentients would easily win battles, there are only three units so far in the Sentient category, one of which is not even able to fight, until we see more Sentient units in War Within I cannot tell whether they would win or not.

      The only other factions that would live are the Wild and Corrupted. Wild because, well, the Kavats literally live amongst them and just eat other Infested, cloak away, and come back when the horde believes the threat is gone. Corrupted, well, they'll never be beaten as long as they stay within their towers as they are simply controlled by a Neural Sentry, which corrupts everything and anything that enters the Orokin towers except for the Tenno, which are a creation of Orokin in the first place.

      Yup, Infested wins.

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    • 99.44.127.103 wrote:
      Infested...
      <snip>

      Grineer have been dealing with and adapting to fight off the infestation from the start, hence why they are the only ones to have units specifically bred to take on the infested. They also are fully capable of simply purging a station or ship of all organic life since their clones mean next to nothing to them. They often use flame to clense their machinery and mining locations of infestation, which are frequently places where it grows. Infestation for them is a daily thing to deal with.

      Also considering the Fomorean fleet, Jeordas isnt a major threat to them.

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    • 99.44.127.103 wrote:
      Infested...

      Corpus are much more weaker to toxin than grineer... it goes through to their shields and do + 50% dmg (so to gas too)  Their robotics are weak for electricity only after their shields are down. So they are much more weaker to magnetic (Ancient disruptors do magnetic procs but i'm not sure if only to players). Grineer machinery are weaker to electricity cause they don't have shields. And Tar-mutalist MOA's deal Corrosive. But grineer have Alloy armored units, those have high res against Slash, Electricity, Magnetic...

      Infested weak against slash, heat, blast and there are grineer units that deal those (Slash: Butchers and Scorpions; Heat: Flamblade, Scorch, Hyekka master, Napalm; Blast: Bombard) and they have Hyekka... which are modified Kavats, and those eats the Infested... 

      So Grineer counters infested well... 

      So here what I think:

      Infested beats Corpus, Corpus beats Grineer, Grineer beats Infested. It's a rock-paper-scissors situation. 

      But Infested don't have tactics so Grineer only has to wait until Infested destroys the Corpus, or can help them to do that... they are evil enough for that. So in the end it would be Grineer vs. Infested...

      so Grineer wins. And if weren't  Tenno Grineer would have already fixed their cloning issues and Infested's only chance would be that grineer cloning system fails before they purge them out of the Solar system... 

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    • I assume we're talking lore wise, and I think this is quite simple, in terms of grineer vs corpus though. Infested are a different story. (Disclaimer, I may be biased because I do really like the corpus lore-wise)

      If we think about this logically, the grineer are a military based faction who have a strong foothold over the galaxy. If the tenno were to leave the picture, what would change? Think about it. What do the tenno really stop the grineer from doing? Mainly we destroy ships and mining facilities, not many important things. People say that they could fix their flesh, but

      A. The tenno aren't really interfering with that all that much, and they have been trying for so long, even utilizing corpus technology to no decent result, and

      B. What would that really achieve? That they don't have to use the armor anymore? Well that makes them weaker than a standard corpus, because the corpus have normal flesh and have a shield to protect them, and if they include the armor it would give a miniscule buff to their "health". We see that corpus without shields are pretty useless, and since grineer already have health, it would probably only be a 50% increase to health(not armor) so what, one extra bullet, maybe? What would that really do for them?



      Onto the corpus. A faction mainly focused on technology and profit. Really the only reason that they haven't taken over the galaxy is because they aren't focused on military. They also probably don't really want the grineer gone, because that could mess up economy, which would be difficult to reestablish. Since the grineer are entirely militarily focused, and the corpus are barely so, and they are about on equal ground militarily right now, what does logic tell you.

      Furthermore, any attempt to strengthen their military has been shut down by the tenno. 

      Bursa, Abulas, Zanuka/Zanuka Hunter/Hyena pack(to an extent) Jackal, Raptors, Razorback. These could and would have had a huge impact in the war, and with the tenno gone it's safe to assume that they would be remade stronger, and more military technologies would have been developed. 


      Really one of the only military-related thing the grineer have built that the tenno have destroyed are fomorians, and if you think for two seconds that with corpus technology they couldn't build a better ship than that if they wanted then you're sadly mistaken. 

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    • Well for starters, the Corpus have no ships in their military yet that even comes close to matching the fomoreans. Those things are a massive advantage right off the bat. And we have indeed stoped the Grineer from making advancements, we prevented them from getting energy weapons a lot sooner than they managed, we delayed the launch and overall strength of their formorean fleet, even breaking it and sending it into hiding. We took out a significant number of their gene labs and destroyed countless numbers of their prototype genetic subjects, not that easy to replace. We have sabotaged their work on Earth to try and retake it for their queens, which would have given them another stronghold to fight from. We have forced their fortress out of hiding. Now, we have split their command in the latest quest. We have done a huge amount of work delaying them or setting them back, just as we have with the Corpus. In that aspect we are pretty much on par with them both.

      The nightwatch and Kuva guardians have not really been a factor in the fight against the Corpusyet. Thanks to us that probably has changed. Those enemies are a lot stronger than their counterparts, and the guardians utilize Orokin secrets to mitigate damage they take, not something the Corpus have figured out yet. Fairly easy to assume these nightwatch can now join in on the fight as they work on gathering Kuva.

      Just as if we were gone it would open up development for the Corpus, the same is true for the Grineer. Their Manic production and quality would only improve, they would make more formoreans, and they would have one less enemy taking out their troops and gene labs. Sure the Corpus can send in their proxies, but to the Grineer their soldiers are expendable, so simply bombarding the area or blowing the ship up isnt outside their tactics. Corpus tend to be more profit driven and such are less likely to make that call if they think they have a chance to salvage the situation.

      As for the corpus not building a larger ship, Sure theyd be able to, but that would take time and significant resources, which the first would give the Grineer time to strike with their remaining formoreans to take the in-progress builds out, and resources that keep getting stolen from them by the grineer raiding strikes. The Grineer had a lot of time to make their ships that the Corpus didnt interfere with that much, the Corpus would be starting out with the enemy already ahead of them on that front.

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    • So what about the ships? First of all, we lack knowledge about the corpus' true military power, they might be hiding their true strength, such as battleships, but even if not, that doesn't really matter.

      The energy weapons? You mean the ones that are never used and don't pose any significant threat to the corpus whatsoever? 

      With the Tenno out of the way, I'm sure any of the corpus inventions that we've stopped would easily take out the fomorians, especially at the rate they can produce them. Specifically the raptors, but I'm sure some of the other ones would work, or even ones that we don't know of.

      Either way, the grineer are more agressive, while the corpus are more defensive, so who knows what the fomorians will be able to do against the defenses of the corpus.


      Again with the gene thing, what real advantage does normal flesh give? Think about it. Compare an armorless grineer to a shieldless corpus. They are useless either way, and a slight increase to the health won't do much. 

      Who cares about the fortress, what's done is done anyways. If we leave, if something happens to the worm queen because of the corpus or otherwise, because every grineer was programmed to obey the queen without question, their whole empire could fall. It's not reversible, unlike what we've done to the corpus. 


      And if something happens to the queens, that means that the secrets of the orikin are gone from the grineer, and so far the corpus have the best understanding of them. 

      Also, the corpus machines are able to be mass manufactured faster and are much stronger than the guardians/nightwatch, giving them an edge.


      Sure the grineer could give their military more numbers, but they lack technology which isn't easy for them to obtain. So they have strength in numbers, however everything uses up resources, and more numbers means more resources taken up. The corpus could increase their technology, which would use less resources for the same or more amount of strength, so if this is about resources the corpus also win.

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    • 75.133.122.186 wrote:
      <snip>

      Why would the Corpus keep hiding their supposed military might when first of all there was no reason for them to have a military of that magnitude before the Grineer rose up, recently and quickly I might add in the lore of the game? Why would they keep it in hiding even after one of their leaders was killed in a direct military attack that was made as an official declaration of war against them, which was done some time ago? Why would they still keep that in hiding when they have been robbed blind and beaten back into the losing side of the conflict? That isnt making any logical sense in the slightest. If they have a military ship fleet, they have no advantage to keeping it hidden other than to build it up to a force that is actually capable of doing any good, meaning what they have now isnt up to snuff.

      Yes, the Energy weapons. The Energy weapons that would pose the largest threat against civillian targets, the same targets the Grineer have been targeting for the largest part of this war. The same targets that are being targeted right now by their Fortress canon, which is one of those energy weapons we managed to delay being produced for so long.

      Im fairly certain that a raptor or jackal or hyena would pose no threat at all to a formorean, a vessel well over a thousand times their mass. The raptors would pose no more of a threat then the Tenno did, which are far more mobile and capable of getting in range to deal actual damage, and had specific weapons produced using stolen plans that the Corpus dont have just to take down the shield protecting the core powering the thing, which took multiple strikes to finally manage to kill one, one of many.

      What advantage does normal flesh give? I dont know, you tell me what having your typical soldiers be able to live past ten years will do when you can likewise produce them by the hundreds. Many Grineer die or fall into unusability due to genetic degredation rather than death through combat. It has nothing whatsoever to do with a "slight increase in health."

      You forget the queens can be reborn through Kuva, which so far we are the only ones doing anything at all to stop the Grineer from collecting it. The Corpus dont even know where the remaining Queen is, let alone how to take the fight to them.

      Actually considering the Grineer make their weapons in batches of tens of thousands at a time, it makes logical sense that they would likewise be able to make soldiers at a comparable rate. We have no knowledge how fast the Corpus are actually able to produce their machines, machines like the Hyenas or the Raptors which would be their deciding advantage in a ground fight (not a space fight, which they are pathetically useless in).

      Do not underestimate the strength in numbers when those numbers are able to move rapidly and strike you in your weak points faster than you can retaliate. Plenty of wars in our history were won by a numerically superior, technologically inferior force. The Corpus have resources sure, but the Grineer take them from the Corpus, destroy the Corpus's ability to get more (remember that Fortress canon? yes, its targeting their Jupiter colonies), and gather their own.

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    • I feel like between the Corpus and the Grineer there exists a sort of stalemate. The Grineer could easily crush the Corpus, but they also can't due to the Corpus having a monopoly on so many resources in the system, to the point I wouldn't be surprised if grineer robotics are manufactured by the Corpus. If they were to somehow make a temporary truce to push back the infested, they could easily remove them, but the stalemate between the two is fairly permenant. Unless the truce became an alliance, then the origin system would be doomed to perpetual war between the two, as the Corpus can't hope to defeat the sheer numbers of the Grineer forces, no matter how much more effective their weapons are. Essentially it would become a sort of Cold War, a race to see which faction can replace the other. If Tyl Regor does manage to completely fix the genetic defects inherent in the Grineer, then it's entirely possible that the Grineer could completely destroy the Corpus. However if Tyl doesn't accomplish that, and the Corpus are able to find some kind of weapon that kills on a massive scale, then the Corpus could easily destroy the Grineer. Then the only problem for the Corpus would be finding new customers and creating enough profits to continue to support their huge infastructure.

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    • The Corpus will win. Energy weapons, better tech, better robots, more intelligent, more money, etc. Not to mention their music, aesthetics, and bosses are better, too.

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    • Dapoculos13 wrote:
      The Corpus will win. Energy weapons, better tech, better robots, more intelligent, more money, etc. Not to mention their music, aesthetics, and bosses are better, too.

      Rather certain the last three there are completely irrelevent.

      Grineer have energy weapons now, have better ships, dont need robots when they have abundance of clones, have equally intelligent leaders (We have no idea how stupid the corpus grunts are, mind you and we've seen the corpus leaders make some really stupid decisions, like selling products to the Grineer while still at war with them), and don't require nearly as much money when they take what they need. Pretty comparable equivalents.

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    • The Fomorians seem to be the only thing the Grineer have that would be a threat.

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    • 69.50.70.219 wrote:
      The Fomorians seem to be the only thing the Grineer have that would be a threat.

      An army that is several times larger as it stands, mass production soldiers that can practically be multiplied off of the bodies of the dead, Easily produced weapons that cost less and are just as effective, A larger fleet of vessels from their raiding runs over the past 1000 years, control of many of the mining resources, and no real care about what losses are taken or profits lost in a fight. Those on top of the Fomorians, which even one decimated an entire corpus fleet for one of their top leaders. They have much that is able to be considered a threat.

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    • Actually there is one thing anyone here seems to forget when the tenno are gone. Lets take the assumption that either the Infestation wins by infecting everyone OR the infestation is pushed back to the derelicts by the combined forces of Grineer and Corpus.

      That would mean only corpus and Grineer are the fighting forces. And we know Grineer fight to control the whole sol system, while the corpus fight for profit, one would say. Lets be honest, imagine yourself as the head of a corpus company researching and selling weaponry and robotics. Would you want the war to end? Of course not, as you are making profit from it!

      My thesis is that the war would just be prolonged extremely (maybe thousands of years?). Some here imagine the fomorians as a clear advantage because the corpus dont have such battleships. Maybe that was a step to prolong the war to make more profit, by giving the grineer an advantage. This may sound stupid but maybe the Corpus expected the tenno to handle the fomorians? After all the tenno already defeated the fomorian fleet. And this discussion is about the tenno vanishing now, namely after the destruction of the fomorians. The corpus might be able to construct a fomorian counter in the time the fomorians are beign rebuilt (after all that takes time).

      Now you will probably say "but what happens after the thousands of years of profit??"

      The difference of technology of both sides would be uncomparable to now, meaning we couldnt possibly know the outcome. Or the Sentients appear and wreak total havoc XD (because the factions would became new "orokin" as they are totally focused on awesome new tech, the thing the sentient are good against)

      Wait, this gives me a complete new thought. What if that is some "circle of life" with the orokin and sentient and total war. Imagine something like Mass effect has O.o

      Well that part was really absurd but think the idea was pretty interesting.

      What do you guys think about my thesis about endless war trough corpus profit? (and sorry for my poor english, I hope you understood what i meant XD)

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    • I wouldn't doubt it honestly. Even if the Grineer have the man power, eventually they will succumb to their cloning disease, on top of already fielding the decaying and dying, where as the Corpus just need to keep building new robots to do the fighting for them. A single Bursa can already wipe the floor with a handful of Grineer, on the larger scale that starts adding up. If, and only IF the Infestation is destroyed to the root, then the Corpus would win, if they wanted to. The Infested are just too strong without the Tenno to keep them in check

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    • 66.67.69.49 wrote:
      I wouldn't doubt it honestly. Even if the Grineer have the man power, eventually they will succumb to their cloning disease, on top of already fielding the decaying and dying, where as the Corpus just need to keep building new robots to do the fighting for them. A single Bursa can already wipe the floor with a handful of Grineer, on the larger scale that starts adding up. If, and only IF the Infestation is destroyed to the root, then the Corpus would win, if they wanted to. The Infested are just too strong without the Tenno to keep them in check


      You forget that were it not for us, they would have found a cure by now for their disease. Nothing would stop them if we were gone. And the infestation is something both factions deal with regularly, they just bio-bomb the place after things get out of hand and repopulate the area.

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    • I would personally give my money to grineer becouse corpus are basically traders and I cannot really imagine infested conquer solar system corpus would propably eventuelly made cure for them anyway

      so grineer are only real army in solar system

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    • Let's look at the facts.

      The Grineer suffer from clone degradation, but are capable of mass-producing troops. They are capable of using other technology to augment their own, including Orokin technology (e.g. Captain Vor's personal Void Key) which means that given a couple of lucky victories, and gaining access to Corpus cloning technology, they would probably be able to lessen or reverse the damage to their genetics, and consequently gain an advantage over the other races. They are also shown to have incredibly powerful warships, though how the Fomorians stack up against the walls of an Infested Orokin Derelict or the Corpus' fleets is up in the air for now.

      The Corpus have mass-produced, cheap, and fairly powerful troops. They, too, are capable of augmenting their ranks with Orokin technology (Alad V and associated Zanuka, Fusion MOAs...) though their understanding versus that of the top-ranking Grineer remains to be seen. Their clones are higher-quality than the Grineer; whether this affects their numbers is unknown, but even if it does, their machines make up for it.

      The Infested form their ranks from their fallen foes, and consequently, war against them would have an element of attrition. There are many Orokin Derelicts known to harbor Infested in massive quantities; this gives them access to vast reserves of Orokin technology. They have displayed the ability to speak topically in coherent language, which signifies they have at least some mental capacity. Thus, the Infestation has access to Orokin technology, and it's entirely possible that they also have infected people from the Orokin era, or even Orokin people. If that is the case, they would have unparalleled access to Orokin machines and the knowledge of how to work them. They may also understand the Void far better than the other races do.

      The Orokin have vanished. The Tenno have vanished. The Sentients are sitting this one out.

      Personal verdict? In case of Gravemind, Infestation wins.

      Otherwise, it's a toss-up between the Corpus and Grineer, and none of them are doing the world any favors.

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    • Considering the infestation wears it self out and stagnates in a location, then the Corpus and the Grineer both just send in the flames and purge the entire area, as specified in lore and eliminate the infestation in the area, quite often in some locations such as the grineer mining facilities, they hardly seem to be having too large of a problem with the infestation. The often deal with outbreaks and fight it back, keeping the infestation secluded to a single area of the solar system or locked in void-jump inaccessible areas like Dark Sectors. Outside of the Infested drifting spores through space slowly and those spores taking hold on a ship or station and reaching planets and then surviving not being destroyed by their cleaning proceedures, then growing into an outbreak that doesnt get wiped out by the purges that are so mundane they are also proceedure now, then they are a risk. The infestation has never risen to a point that the Corpus or Grineer actually gave much of a care. They certainly havent called their full military forces against these locations or ships that are infested. This goes to show that really, the infestation is just being an annoyance that has been left alone to its area of space that it sometimes drifts out of and gets cleaned off, like bugs on a windshield.

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    • Personally, what matters here is, in my opinion, wether assasination missions are counted. If tenno assasinations Didn't count then I'd give it to corpus. Altough we'd have Tyl Regor, Lech Kril and others for the grineer, we also get the Ambulas with the animo processor. An army of mass produced robots which can prepare based of off previous fights, plus more animo processors probably going to be made as well, I feel like the corpus would have the advantage there, especially against the grineer, who Altough having far more manics in this case, would likely still fail to beat an army of Ambulas, Bursa's and maybe a few Jackals as well. While yes, the Formorians would remain a huge threat, I think that corpus would figure out how to sabotage formorians eventually. This leaves the infested, while yes they'd have the mutalist strain + all their golems, the corpus could just bomb sites with high concentrations of infested as well as start working on their own Hyeka (kavat) utilizing troops specifically to deal with the infested. If the sentients were to attack, I highly doubt that Corpus could be victorious against them, considering that the sentients have their adaptive skills. I know that I made quite some assumptions in this and haven't mentioned all potential advantages (Razorback, potential lephantis attacks, the entire corrupted faction, likely even more, I just said what I felt would happen in this possible scenario. I didn't mention grineers cloning issues being solved as we don't know how this would impact the grineer) Outside of this scenario, I'd say the infested, simply because they are a hive mind and could deal a lot easier with losing the assasination targets. I'd say corpus would be the first to fall, then the grineer. (Sorry if this is a double post, I'm not sure if my original post was actually put on here. Also sorry if I have bad grammar)

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    • To add onto what I said, I've decided to take bosses from each faction and rate how useful and efficient they'd be. Usefulness is about how they'd fare in battle and efficiency is how I think maintenance for them would go. Please keep in mind that this is entirely my opinion and that it might not take everything into account. Ratings go from 1 to 5. This also does not count field bosses.

      Corpus: Jackal. Usefulness 2 efficiency 3. While the Jackal is quite weak, he seems like he wouldn't need too much maintenance considering that to damage the main body, the legs would have to be tsken down first, which with some assisting units other than mine ospreys could actually become a huge threat (shield ospreys, bursa's to take fire for the legs. The sergeant. Usefulness 1. Efficiency 5. Due to being a weak placeholder, at the time that I write this the sergeant is absolutely worthless. Efficiency is high because of his guaranteed quick death making any maintenance needless and unhelpful, meaning he would be the most efficient unit out there. Alad V&Zanuka:usefulness 4 efficiency 1. Zanuka's abilty to revive and Alad V's blind and shield attakcs would make them a pretty good team if sufficiently supported. However, considering we are out of Tenno, Zanuka will only last as long as it could stay out of harms way. Despite this, they could turn the tide of at the least one ground battle. Raptors: usefulness 3. Efficiency 3. As long as these things can keep being built they can keep dominating the battlefield. Despite this, we have seen some occasions where they didn't last very long at all, so Usefulness could be lowered, but as it was mostly warframe abilities thst decimated them, I can't be sure about how they'd fare against the grineer. Hyena pack: usefulness 4. Efficiency 3:very deadly, but as I'm rwting a full psck, that means maintenance for 4 different robots. I rate them as a full pack because they are most deadly in a pack. Ambulas: usefulness 2/5. Efficiency 4. Usefulness depends on the whole animo processor thing (without a 2, with a 5). Efficiency is high because of how many we see corpus throw at us. Lynx:'usefulness 1. Efficiency 2. Basically a smaller version of the jacksl which needs it's own personal allies, but is also seemingly being researched by the grineer. Razorback: usefulness 1/5. Efficiency 1. Razorback proxies are only usefull in open battles, but has a great weakness of being way too big. The high efficiency is due to it's incredible armour.

      Grineer: (Grineer won't get an efficiency rating as all grineer bosses are singilar people. Not robots, and tney also lack a robot ally to revive them. Vor: usefulness 3. Altough he is quite powerful, Vor isn't very tanky, his only sabing grace being his Janus key. Lt Lech Kril: usefulness 4. As long as his weak spot isn't hit too much times, he could keep tanking untill dying or being forced into his fire form. Balor formorian: usefulness 5. Efficiency 1. The greatest threat in waframe space. Takes forever to be built. Has the firing rate of a railgun moa with an ice proc (not literally). Sargas Ruk: usefulness 2. His glowing weak spots make him weak against a team of bursa's or Animo Ambulas. Great for CC, but the weak spots on him seem more inconvenient than the ones on Kril or Vay Hek. Kela de thaym: usefullnes. 1. Not very threatening outside of her arena without her roller protected orbital strikes. Tyl regor: usefulness 4. Altough more usefulmas a scientist, a highly upgraded manic (which is the best description for him in battle) is highly threatening. Vay Hek. Usefulness 5. Efficiency 2. Incredibly powerful and potentially capable of dojng incredible damage. Also flees, meaning he can repair his terra frame and then come back again.

      Infested: (They also won't get efficiency rated as their bosses would all get very low ratings anyways. Except phorid. There seems to be multiple of him as he can be in multiple locations at the same time).

      Mutalist Alad V: usefulness 3. Less controlled due to still having part of his own mind (he even became non mutalist again). Still great with his mind control collar and such. Lephantis: usefulness 5. Could just keep his mouths shut and not attack eith any of his heads while stopming, or quickly commit genocide with gas, scythes and those explosive pod thingies. If he could somehow do a land attack that is. Maybe Jordas would Taxi him?. (I might or might nit ge slightly biased as he's my favourite boss) Phorid: usefulness 4. Can do amazing damage and it seems like there are multiple phorids, ehich makes of for them being less tanky. Jordas: usefulness 3. Insane damage. Capable of flying on his own. But also would be torn apart quitr easily by things like a formorian.

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    • The sentients would actually win, becaue the only thing that remotly stands a chance against them is...? the Tenno!

      Have you even been on crossfire on Lua?

      Sentients win every time. There is no Corpus or Grineer or Infested that can even dent a Sentient.

      The Grineer hide when large sentients come out on PoE. They dont even try.

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    • 188.166.68.235 wrote:
      The sentients would actually win, becaue the only thing that remotly stands a chance against them is...? the Tenno!

      Have you even been on crossfire on Lua?

      Sentients win every time. There is no Corpus or Grineer or Infested that can even dent a Sentient.

      The Grineer hide when large sentients come out on PoE. They dont even try.


      Well this discussion didnt include the sentients because it was started years ago when those enemies didnt exist as a faction yet. Its fairly non-discussion if you include them, so its better to not include them at that point to discuss the 3 factions that remain.

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    • I have been reading over a number of these ideas, and my two cents on the subjects is the Grineer would be dominant. I am not sure what the exact timeline ingame is for time passing in the real world, but every couple months or so the tenno undertake an extended guerrilla attack in concert with each other in order to destroy the newest Balor Fomorian. In doing so they must gather materials and craft special devices to even allow them into the Fomorian, and even then for only minutes at a time. Destroying a fomorian takes either extreme mobility, skill, and know how, or some grossly overpowered weapon to simply tear through its shielding. The corpus have not been demonstrated to have anything more than some really good robotics technology, and are mostly a non starter for space/fleet combat. The infested seem to simply expand outwards to fill whatever bubble they reside in, and then sit around until something happens, with small exceptions such as operation falling star. The infested dont really pose a significant threat on a space level, and since the grineer are so incredibly numerous they could simply tear apart any installation the infestation had with a fomorian. Hell if you are capable of surviving on jupiter you could glass an entire planet and probably be able to figure out how to live on it anyway. The OP was in reference to just the main three factions, and did not include the sentients. If you include them I think there starts an argument that the infestation would reign supreme. My reasoning is that we do not know what motivates the sentients in the long term. The grineer are following the queens who are in it for self aggrandizement, such short sighted greed is ultimately what led to the orokin downfall in the first place. The corpus are merchants, and while I think they are not as short sighted as the queens they end up being just as greedy. The infestation seems to be following the basic driving principle of life, which is to self propogate. The sentients at the moment are just out for revenge against the tenno who defeated them. If we are saying the tenno poof out of existence I think the sentients focus will shift to the other three factions. The grineer for being led by orokin survivors, the corpus for using orokin tech, and the infestation for being orokin creations. Each faction will easily crumble under the force and adaptibility of the sentient horde, but the infestation is uniquely able to survive because only a single individual needs to survive and escape in order for the infestations way of life to carry on unchanged. The grineer and corpus live in the social framework of their members, and if enough of those members are killed off the way of life will die, not 100% eradication necessary. The infestation on the other hand could scatter to the wind and spread to an infinite number of solar systems, and the sentients are left with the choice to chase down each and every cell of infestation, or to accept their victory over the origin system and allow the infestation to escape and live elsewhere. Considering that the sentient pay the cost of infertility to cross interstellar space they would likely temper any desire to conquer with the joy of settling down and building a home. However all constructs are temporary, making the surviving infestation the ultimate winner, never having to put roots down to thrive.

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    • I would have to say either the Grineer or The Courpus, but the infested are deffently out of the picture. There mindless biengs with no leadership. If the teno disappeared, though, I would have to say the courpus. Even though they lack strenth in numbers, It appears to me that they are far more intellagent than the Grineer. Also, the Courpus can  start mass producing MOA's and shield ospreys to easilly win a battle.

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    • Shinigamiscall wrote:
      How was this ever even a discussion?

      Corpus would come out on top with ease. 

      If this was back when the game first started then i would say grineer but the tides have completely switched since then. It use to be: Grineer, Infested, Corpus but now it is Corpus, Infested, Grineer.

      The Grineer would be obliterated because they are susceptible to, literally, everything. The Corpus can disable their buffs, block bullets with Ice Eximus Nully (double shield OP)  and stomp them in terms of Armor with Bursa (which can easilly take on an army of grineer alone since their missle barage is far stronger than a Grineer Bombard). Let's not even mention the vast amount of power Sapping Ospreys have >.> Just a few of those on the battlefield can destroy entire squads in one go.

      They would also lose to the Infested because the Grineer units have never been known to be "fast", except for the Maniac. The Infested work very similarly to the Zerg and they come in droves, very quickly. The Grineer would simply be over-run, even with their vast number of clones. We could say that the Grineer have "Kavats" and that by lore they consume infested but i have yet to see the Kavats win against the Juggernaught. I know Kavats are a pain in the Arse because they can one shot frames with low armor/shields/heatlh but doing that to a Jug is another story.

      In the end Grineer, no matter how strong they get in dmg, are simply way too far behind the other factions in tech/versatility. This is why Grineer are a literal joke in Sortie because we can just walk all over them with warframe abilities. Infested have Disruptors which reduce the duration of things like Avalanche freeze dur roughly 75% each one and corpus have nullifier bubbles either from Nullies or Bursa which grants them immunity and even removes stat effects like Nyx Chaos upon entering the bubble.


      Bu then you forget the Heavy Grineer Troops which one of them is used to tear down Bursas. Also all the common Grineer troops which can do long range attack can kill flying targets with the mass amount of them there. The Infested can also be killed by the fire weapon weilding Grineer Troop so your arguement doesn't make sense (not that I don't respect it of course).

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    • Now to get serious. Firstly they wouldn't really want to fight each other (Grineer vs Corpus) but if we forced them to I think it will be a 50-50 chance. I will also include Tenno not intefering in a later part of this post but anyway to start it of the Grineer focus on strength in numbers while Corpus goes for the technology to fight. Excluding Maniacs and Ghouls, Grineer and Corpus would be fairly matched on one side Grinner with millions of clones and more being produced each day and Corpus with powerful units like Fusion MOAs and Elite Crewmen etc. But comes Bursas which i view the Corpus' saving grace. There isn't much Grineer with enough intelligence to hack and defeat Bursas. However the heavy unit Bailiff is the Grineer answer to Isolator Bursas but not the other Bursas which can lead to other problems. If Ghouls were finally produced to be put into different planets it can wreak havoc on mkst Corpus Units leading to a sort of stalemate. Then comes the Infested which the Corpus and Grineer seem to hate more than each other since if left unchecked Infestation has the power to completely wipe out Both Corpus and Grineer. While the Infested might not have much intelligence the power to infest anything biological and robotics (which Salad V helped with) can lead to both of Corpus and Grineer being wiped out. So far the only reason -mainly- the Infested haven't conquered the Origin System is because of the Tenno but it is also likely for both the Grineer and Corpus to team up to make a cure for the Infestation which can probabaly lead to the wipe out of Infestation. Currently it seems very unlikely but the Grineer do stand a small chance, maybe a bigger one if they start mass-producing Napalm, Scorch and Flamblade which incorporate the usage of Heat Weapons which The Infested are mainly weak against.

      Now if Tenno just vanished I personally think it will still be a stalemate because if we didn't kill Tyl Rgor then you have a newly improve Grineer army capable of taking down a lot of the Corpus units. Maniacs and Ghouls add another threat if Vay Hek and Tyl Regor decide to make it the latter part of their new army. it also means that the Grineer don't have to worry about the genetic disorder. But then what happens if Tyl Regor finishes with the Tubemen Project? What happens if he moves onto the area of robotics for the Grineer? We certainly know he's smart enough because he was quite close to stopping the Grineer genetic-disorder. But also in some places in Grineer controlled areas there are dissected Jackal Part which might point that Tyl Rgor could make a new Heavy Unit for the Grineer  maybe even to oppose the Corpus Bursas. I still feel like it would be stlaemate between all three. Not incuding Sentinents which can easily wipe out all of the factions quite easily. Tell me what you guys think about my rather terrible opinion. Thanks for reading!

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    • guys guys the answer is easy 

      THEY HAVE MOTHER FUCKING CLEM

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    • So, I see this going one of two possible ways.

      One being that all the Bosses of the races are still alive; and that the Tenno were just in cryostasis, never waking up. Assuming this, both Capt' Vor, and Alad V would possess a Frame, what I'd assume Vor would do with it is bring it to the Queens, Then the Elder Queen would preform Continuity with it, as she attempted to do in The War Within. But in assuming the Frames still exist, Alad V's Zanuka Project would have potentally limitless frames and thus limitless Zanuka. And since Alad is still doing things with Zanuka, the Technocyte Virus never be produced by him, and with that the infestation would be a MUCH smaller threat. Yes, Ty Regor would still be alive, but the corpus could easily just overrun the labs with suicide bots. On a side note to the other thread posts, Assuming that the Grinner have infinite clones, one would have to assume the Corpus also have limitless resources, and thus; infinite bots. In general, Corpus have better equipment and technology, as they do resarch the Orokin and adapt their bots to such tech, and with said tech, leap-throughs could easily be achived, elevating their tech even higher, while leaving the Grinner in the dust to deal with the spreading infested.

      Not to mention the Corpus weapons versus the Grinner Weaponry, sure, you can stretch the usefullness of the Nox in these situations, but most heavy-duty Corpus weaponry, such as the Opticore easily tears them to shreds in the hands of a skilled marksmen. Meanwhile most Grinner is based around impact, which while usefull against shields, is terrible versus heavily armored targets, such as Ambulas, Zanuka, or or the Bursa Units. The only one-up that the Grinner have on the Corpus is the Prosecuters, nigh invincable to non elemental damage.

      The Grinner are better physically most likely being able to knock out a Corpus in a single punch, but what they lack is intelligence. Even the smartest, Ty Regor, being slightly above average of the Corpus, given most corpus are skilled coders. Albiet the Grinner are considerably above average of skilled fighters, with a skilled shot, and above average strength.

      Overall, I'd place my index credits on the Corpus winning, given they take out Ty Regor early on. 

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    • But it still remains the fact that if Tyl Regor wasn't taken out then you'll probably have Maniacs running around everywhere. But you also have to remeber: while Bursas and bosses like the Raptors are powerful, they are no match for a Formorian. If it wasn't for the Tenno, us, then these monstrosities would've destroyed Corpus long ago. But like in my previous post I would think it will be a stalemate between Grineer and Corpus and win if Tyl Regor perfects his project making Grineer immune to the Infestation.

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    • Ok i have one point that i havent seen made that may make a few of you think a little differnely about this article... Im not saying the Corpus would win by any means but I just want to point out that the Lotus says that Zanuka is like a Tenno with a full mod loadout. Given time Corpus could possibly develop Tenno of their own. 

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    • I remembered another thing... Grineer have nukes.... bye bye infested... 

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    • Detied wrote:
      guys guys the answer is easy 

      THEY HAVE MOTHER FUCKING CLEM

      Fair enough 

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    • Greyshade3713 wrote:
      Being as the condition of the question is that the tenno vanished, or went back to sleep, or however they disappear, all that the tenno have done thus far has still been done.  back to the question at hand.  We have Corpus, dealing mostly energy based (magnetic and electricity) and puncture damage and being most vulnerable to impact and energy damage and slashing after awhile, then Grineer, dealing mostly puncture with a decent amount of flame and slash thrown in and vulnerable to puncture and poison based damages, and we have infested, dealing mostly slash, impact, and poison based damages and being vulnerable to heat, slashing, and a couple poison based such as gas and corrosive.  

      So we have rock paper scissors basically.  Grineer don't exactly have the right damage type in their main forces, I'm not counting bosses or assassins on either side yet, to effectively kill the majority of corpus units, but corpus deal the right damage type to take out Grineer.  However, Corpus won't be able to last long against the infested because of infested disrupters and the poor corpus melee resilience.  With Grineer taking little damage from slashing and impact, infested will really only cause substantial damage with the occasional corrosive proc, but Grineer bombards, napalms, scorches, butchers, and troopers, can all cause mayhem for the infested.  

      Since we're currently at a stalemate, we need include faction behavior.  Infested are infinitely patient.  As long as there are derelicts, which are not easily accessed by other factions, infested will exist.  That would leave corpus to kill grineer if not for balor formorians.  Until such time as corpus get a super ship, I think Grineer are winning.  

      well that was long, and may not be 100% accurate, but theres my opinion.  

      Grineer primarily deal impact not puncture. They do have a small sect of Tenno avavible weapons which main puncture.

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    • 73.140.210.118 wrote:
      Knowing what we do about the 3 main opposing factions (Grineer, Corpus, Infested), who do you think would come to dominate the Origin System if the Tenno were to suddenly vanish?  I mean there are other factions, like the Corrupted and "Wild" and the Sentients, but the Corrupted never leave the towers, Kubrows and sandskates are not developing interstellar travel any time soon (at least, I think), and we simply don't know enough about the Sentients at this time to discenr their potential.

      My personal guess is the Infested, as they seem to multiply far faster than the other factions, and with Alad V's mutalist strain, virtually everything can become Infested.



      First we need to address the way the question was prefaced-if the tenno were to never wake from cryostasis or simply disappear one day. This is very important as the latter implies that all of the work the Tenno have put in still lay here to this day (I.E Killing the tubemen)



      -SENTIENTS-

      Including sentients into this argument would be somewhat unfair; as the Tenno's sole purpose was to combat the sentient scourge due to the children of Zariman Ten Zero flowing in tandem with the void-the weakness of the sentients.



      Their ability to adapt to damage on a whim makes them way too bulky and would take multiple members from any faction to take them out. Offensively their weapons are powerful and hard to protect against for non-tenno; I would expect battalions of grineer, sects of corpus units and infested hordes falling before Sentient battylysts. The only saving grace other factions have are the sentient small numbers, dwarfed even by the selectively bred corpus merchants.



      No matter what, including sentients into the argument is foolish, as all factions existed before alongside the Orokin yet the only one who came out on top over the Sentients were the Tenno. (this can be overlooked due to the Corpus exclusively being a merchant cult prior to Grineer Harassment, and the Grineer were mere laborers.)



      -GRINEER-

      Now when we preface this question with the idea that the Tenno have never been disturbed from their cryosleep then I feel like out of the main three factions-Grineer would come out on top.



      The Grineers’ main weaknesses come from shabby equipment and their decaying genepool. Any of the other factions choosing to fight an endurance battle with the Grineer would find the fight to get easier and easier as the Grineer decay to become even weaker and weaker-eventually they will run out of resources to come up with physical augmentations for their soldiers and this causes their down fall.



      The Tenno’s interference in Tyl Regor’s tubemen operation now nonexistent then the Grineer would soon find their main weakness eradicated. With large numbers of strong, healthy Grineer soldiers easily out matching the proxies of the Corpus and Infested Aberrations.



      Grineer find strength in numbers and their impressive ships. Their Balor Fomorians can easily overpower Corpus trade ships and destroy the Derelict Orokin ships which harbor the Infested amalgamations. The numbers of Grineer soldiers have been able to keep them going on for so long, so abstinence from the Tenno would let their numbers breed.



      Also assuming that we’re talking about all VIPs still very alive and very proactive in what they do then even with the Tubeman project halted I believe Regor will eventually pick up from where he left off.

      -CORPUS-

      The Corpus come out second in my elimination for a few damning reasons. Out of all factions they are the friendliest with the Tenno, and that’s saying a lot but still. Even with slightly more Tenno support they still end up equals to the Grineer.



      The Corpus’ main weaknesses stem from their selective breeding. Their selective breeding does help make healthy workers but this also causes them to have smaller numbers than any other faction-and their proxies compensation still doesn't fully fill the gap. They also seem to have a lot of infighting between the Corpus (Not to say that the Grineer don’t have any infighting-but it’s larger in comparison).Unlike the Grineers’ undying devotion and Infested hive mind the corpus are the most broken faction.



      With their special invasion based attack not really seem to pose a major threat and be played off as a ‘challenge for the Tenno’ (Razorback) whilst the Grineer’s special invasions revolve around their massive Fomorian fleet. Unlike the Grineers’ undying devotion and Infested hive mind the corpus are the most broken faction.



      Their benefits from Warframes not being awoken from cryostasis could either hinder or help their cause (Depending on where they get their warframe parts). If they salvage their Warframe parts from cryopods then this will help their RnD but if they get it from Frames lost in battle then this would hurt as they’ve either lost their supply or never had a supply in the first place.



      Their strengths revolve around high tech weapons, more resources and money as well as units in their army with no brains and all guts (Proxies). A lack of Tenno seems to only lightly tip the favor into the Corpus’ hands.



      -Infested-

      The infested come a close last before the Grineer and Corpus. The infested pose the greatest potential but are the simplest to kill one by one.



      Infested have a crippling weakness in which they are stupid as shit. Infested pose the greatest potential but the least adaptability-with the lack of infested strategizing this puts them as bullet sponges.



      They have an amazing strength in which they can corrupt other units to join their cause given they assimilate them. Infested are undying as another-they are infinitely patient.



      Without the existence of Tenno the infested would be allow to breed free-this makes them an alarming threat but given the mutual hatred of the infested between Grineer and Corpus then they could band together to take out this threat.



      Even if one does not band together to take out the threat the Infested would surely come out last given each faction divides their resources to have a sect for killing infested.



      -Verdict-

      A lot of this depends on tactics n’ shit-like who targets who first and what exactly they target and prioritize. Like if the Corpus went for Regor and succeeded in taking down his lab along with killing him, then the Grineer have lost a vital playing piece.

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    • ^

      I believe you forgot one massive tool and that is the functioning Ambulas. It could learn the needed strategies, and given enough time and enough mass production  would most likely be able to effectively take out grineer and infested attacks. Add to that the infrsted most likel not getting the ability to invect robots as Alad V most likely would not turn without tenno intervention, causing a chsnce of them either being able to fet more Zanukas and either way getting to fight the infestation with only robots at no real risk other than losing some robots, and I think corpus would would yame te win, as they could just send massive osprey swarms to attack formorians if needed.

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    • I think  the grineer would win if they  fix their fragmented  genome

      Corpus would win if they innovate so much they simply destroy  the others  

      The infected  would win if they evolve  enough to be resistant  to the others  tech

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    • Excluding the Tenno, the Corpus will win without question. I don't think their advanced technology and robotics expertise needs to be explained, you can see it for yourself in the game. It's obviously very advanced and second only to the Orokin. The Warframes themselves are more advanced but I consider the Warframes to be Orokin technology by origin to begin with, so my point stands. I'm certain anyone who's spent time in a lengthy Elite Sanctuary run will tell you how dangerous a herd of Corpus units can be too, myself included. 

      I don't think I need to mention this, but the Corpus' technology far outclass the Grineer in quite literally every way. High powered lasers will slice through armor, superheated plasma will eat away and burn flesh, and shields will deflect most all cheap bullets the Grineer use.

      Numbers won't help either. No matter how many clones the Grineer make, it won't do them any good if their soldiers are brain dead and decaying with cheap equipment. I don't think I have to mention the Ghouls either - they're literally mindless zombies with no understanding of tactics, and their equipment is even worse than an ordinary soldier. If the Grineer have reached a point where they're starting to use Ghouls to supplement their numbers, then it only goes to show that Tyl Regor's gene research isn't making enough of an impact.

      Unlike clones, the Corpus' robots don't suffer from gene decay, and they can produce proxies just as fast as the Grineer's sealabs can produce clones, and as we've seen in the past five years and in various assasination missions, the Corpus' robotics have continued to improve. I also shouldn't have to mention their ordinary soldiers who are much healthier and smarter thanks to selective breeding and what we can only assume to be expert medical care.

      The Tenno assasinating numerous high-ranking Grineer officials will only serve to help the Corpus as well. The Corpus' ingenuity will also serve to beat any Grineer they come across. If the Corpus are approaching the point where they can actively disrupt a Warframe's void powers, which I remind you is arguably the pinnacle of all technology in the Warframe universe, then it's not a stetch to say the Corpus can counter most any tactic the Grineer use.

      The Grineer's failure to successfully overtake the colony of Cetus is another testamanet to their bad tactics. With how brute and reckless they are (look at Ceres for an example) you might imagine they'd simply drop a nuclear warhead on the colony to devastate the tower and barrier, but either they don't have enough firepower to break through or they haven't thought to use such a tactic, and the Plains isn't a terribly large area to begin with, not when compared to Fortuna.

      The Corpus not only successfully overtook the area and subjugated a whole colony of people, but successfully manipulated Orokin technology and terraformed the surface of Venus beyond recognition, and Fortuna itself has been said to be three or four times larger than the Plains, so this tells you a lot about their persistance. It was mentioned that Fortuna was quite literally a "Firestorm" when they arrived, implying that it was completely inhospitable above ground, yet they still managed to turn it into a freezer capable of supporting animal and plant life. The Plains were always a hospitable area to inhabit given Earth's position from the Sun, and the Grineer have still failed. Keep in mind that Earth is the Grineer's home planet, so you would assume they'd have the strongest foothold here too, and it makes their defeat by Cetus and the Tenno all the more embarassing.

      Speaking of terraforming and inhabiting a firestorm, the Corpus are managing to inhabit and mine a star. They're harvesting Jupiter itself. They have massive floating cities - more than one - within its clouds. They're so proficient at it that they've made Neptune - another gas giant - their home planet. As far as we know the Grineer have only managed to inhabit the gas giant Saturn by digging themselves into asteroids and small planetoids surrounding said giant - a far step back from what the Corpus have achieved. 

      Before I forget, I ought to mention the Fomorians. An incredibly powerful tool for the Grineer to use to be sure, but think on this - what's stopping the Corpus from vaporizing the manufacturing facilities for these Fomorians with their own ships? If they were to blow up one of these cores in the facility, it would turn the surrounding area into an inhospitable wasteland as the Lotus puts it during Grineer hijack missions. We know for a fact they're capable of such beams - we've seen it in the Ambulas fight and in the Railjack reveal. I also shouldn't forget the Razorback Armada - that would obviously prove a headache for any Grineer platoon or facility to go up against while dealing with orbital strikes at the same time.

      Look unless the Grineer step up their game with developting energy weapons and Tyl Regor speeds up his gene research significantly, I can't see them winning in the end, especially not with the Tenno assaulting six of their high-ranking officials as opposed to three for the Corpus. A final little note before I write out a conclusion, the Tenno are friendlier to the Corpus than the Grineer as it is, so they're less inclined to attack them if forced to choose one side or the other. You can see evidence of this by how the Lotus was willing to work alongside Alad V in The Second Dream, albeit she was between a rock and a hard place so this instance is up for debate.

      And frankly, the Grineer's society and tech are downright ugly so nobody in their right mind would ever choose them even if they did have a chance of victory.

      The Grineer will perish and the Corpus will prevail, erecting towering neon cities on the bleeding edge of technological development, laced with salvaged Orokin parts and smashing down on top of rusted Grineer metal sinking into the ground. All assaults will be vaporized out of existence by high powered beams and superheated plasma, housing augmented civilians inside these cyberpunk-esque metropolis supercities. They will collect all the wealth and profit from the broken Grineer Empire to grow ever more powerful. They have no interest in power expansion, they search for wealth and nothing more, and vaporizing the Grineer is how they'll do it. When it's done, an understanding will be reached with the Tenno through Lotus' silver tongue.

      GIVE UNTO THE VOID.

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    • I will just say grineer.

      Why?



      ooh



      balor fomorians 

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    • the corpus proxies espeecially the ambulas are examples of how the y could winby using robots todestroy the grinneer

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    • how many effing amswers to this simple question. the kumbrow will win

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    • couple of spoilers in this so dont read if u havent completed the war within and second dream quest

      As you know (presuming you've done the quest) the grineer are wretched once humans but centuries of cloning has made them ugly and vile if they were to use the kuva scepter they would occupy the corpus corpes giving them fresh new human flesh to clone from, on the other hand sentients would win since the only thing that can kill them is the void aka operator after visiting the quills.

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    • 73.140.210.118 wrote:
      Knowing what we do about the 3 main opposing factions (Grineer, Corpus, Infested), who do you think would come to dominate the Origin System if the Tenno were to suddenly vanish?  I mean there are other factions, like the Corrupted and "Wild" and the Sentients, but the Corrupted never leave the towers, Kubrows and sandskates are not developing interstellar travel any time soon (at least, I think), and we simply don't know enough about the Sentients at this time to discenr their potential.

      My personal guess is the Infested, as they seem to multiply far faster than the other factions, and with Alad V's mutalist strain, virtually everything can become Infested.

      infested have the odd's in their favor alad v is now on the ited's side which resulted in the infested being able to infect anything but

      i really think sentients will win since their a pain to kill even for us what chance do other factions's have against them and without the tenno cetus will be defenceless and if grineer destroy cetus some vonmalyst will probably follow and the flesh tower you see in cetus well from what i heard if the sentients get their hands on that flesh they will be able to reproduce again and the sentients do have their own ship which will become a tileset someday though hard to kill it's not imposible

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    • Mywarface wrote:

      infested have the odd's in their favor alad v is now on the ited's side which resulted in the infested being able to infect anything but

      i really think sentients will win since their a pain to kill even for us what chance do other factions's have against them and without the tenno cetus will be defenceless and if grineer destroy cetus some vonmalyst will probably follow and the flesh tower you see in cetus well from what i heard if the sentients get their hands on that flesh they will be able to reproduce again and the sentients do have their own ship which will become a tileset someday though hard to kill it's not imposible

      Well, Spoiler: Alad V is actually no longer on the infested's side. We helped him cure his infestation in return for his help in the War Within. It doesnt help that DE STILL has not corrected the planet order so that you encounter infested Alad before you gain access to The War Within, but chronologically and canonically he was infested first, helped us in the quest, asked for our help to reverse his infestation in an event, and he has gone into hiding since.

      As for the Sentients, they werent around when this all started and werent part of the discussion, but now that they are around it is pretty obvious that they would win overall if the Tenno vanished. Not including them? Im still aiming for the Grineer. Infested spores take decades to float through space to spread, Clones are a dime-a-ten thousand.

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    • Look at the damage types and defenses available to the two factions most heavily mentioned in this debate (Grineer and Infested).

      Grineer gets the win eight out of ten for me. Grineer have the most variety of damage potentials with common soldier classes. Impact, Slash, Puncture, Toxin, Blast, and heat. Infested just seam to have the physicals and toxin. Blast allows for crowd control and heat is in their Scorches and Napalms. 

      Defenses is even more Grineer stacked. There's a reason we play test weapon viablity against heavily armored targets. The Grineer Ferrite armor will take a fair beating before finally failing and the infested will not take down enough of them to actually do any significant losses on the Grineer side. Yes, Ancient Healers are a thing, but they aren't that hard to take down. Plus, again, all Grineer damage types are effective against all Infested defensive types. Now imagine some Infested taking on a platoon of Bombards, let alone Napalms.  

      They also have the most variable boss types. Letch Krill, Gustrag Three, Vor, and Sargus are just a few examples. See where I'm going? The Grineer have a ton of war heroes, the executioners, and the Nightwatch. 

      Infested only gets it when they finally plant themselves on the Kuva fortress and take the Queens. 

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    • MY BET IS ON INFESTED BECAUSE IF INFESTED KILL A GRINEER THE GRINEER WILL BE ON INFESTED TEAM AND THE MECH STRAIN CAN INFECT MACHINES LIKE OSPREYS SO I BET ON INFESTED Get ur infested merch for only 2 credits now!but wait if you order through dem black market scumbags u can get a free pulsating zombie cap!!!

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    • This isn't an advertisment

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    • sorry

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    • My bet is Orokin because they can turn the Grineer into their allies.

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    • Snezzy2 wrote:
      My bet is Orokin because they can turn the Grineer into their allies.

      true,but infestation destroyed their civilization directly after sentients did

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    • Snezzy2 wrote:
      My bet is Orokin because they can turn the Grineer into their allies.

      hmmm nah I think infestation will do it, although, orokin corrupts almost anything. I do think corpus could ruin the grineer though..with the right amount of firepower anyway, vay hek won't give up though thats for sure.

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    • A Lone Tenno
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