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  • I konw this may sound like a stupid discussion, but think about it first: Right now, witch of them is better for defense mission ? Frost' Snow Clobe has HP, small time of invulnerable, gains additional health during invulnerable (if it takes damage), receives 500% of Frost' base armor and slow enemies that get inside. Limbo' Cataclysm has no HP, shrinks over time, restores energy (2 per second when you are inside it), and damages enemies when cast, when it expires, and when they enter and leave it. Additionally, Cataclysm is now toggleable, so you can end it whenever you want. I personally believe that Limbo might be more useful in latter waves, but i don't know. Tell me what you guys think.

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    • Cataclysm + Mesa Ulti = easy 40 Waves of T1D. With Limbo + 3x Mesa u do the 60 Without even moving once :D

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    • Cataclysm/banish + spam abilities = one of the best exploit there is since Trinity's nerf.

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    • frost's globe has the advantage that you can use it as cover and shoot wth your normal weapons.

      Limbo's cataclysm is pretty good, but compltely disables normal weapons from affecting the outside: only powers go through it.


      If you have 2-3 mesas, sure, bring limbo. that's the best way to go.

      However, if you don't have mesas, just take a frost + loki (volt can also help, because his shield is indestructible. you can place it strategically to cover against most gunfire, whilst the globe stops the random shots)

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    • Augument Mod win : Ash invisiblity for your team mates

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    • I've played with a limbo based on duration and a small, optimally sized Cataclysm for defending the pod and I can honestly say, RIP Frost, you're being replaced. With all the explosions from Bombards and grenades, Frost's Snow Globe just can't protect. You can bring a Frost for an extra layer of protection if you want, but slomo Nova would be a much greater asset than him.

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    • Frost+Mesa+Limbo+Nova/Mesa

      Wave 60 no sweating. Snow Globe set on range becomes large enough to shrug off the explosions btw.

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    • lol are all replies here made by trolls ? 

      seriously dafuq is this crap.

      First of all we don't massure it with low levels/difficulities but of course the highest. so if you put in comparison anything else except T4 void or Pluto, Ceres and Eris then your whole explanation is flawed.

      Secondly, the post talks about Limbo in particular and compare him to Frost as only in defensive abilities. who dafuq brought Mesa to the discussion ?! Of course every Mesa needs a limbo especially the ones with maxed Blind Rage but not every Limbo needs a Mesa, there are other tactics can be used with her being in the team.

      Now let me an actual productive answer varied from the crap comments above: Limbo's Catalysm is mainaly used to dodge Bombard missiles, they fly through the sphere and explode away from it, and of course the most important properity and advantage since in T4 20+ waves the Bombards get increasement in range and blast damage. The thing that Frost's globe can't handle it anymore especially when there are more than one bombard, making the globe a pit of explosions.

      However, Frost's globe prevents enemies from reaching its center, i.e the pod, which catalysm isn't capable of as well as preventing short-ranged enemies like MOA from reaching inside. Note that if a Mesa stands on the pod she can't hit the ones beneth her and in high waves these ones can destroy the pod in couple hits.

      Saying that "only" Catalysm is useful in high waves is just ridiculous and stupid. The higher the enemies the higher their damage and people always forget that in defense mission YOU worth NOTHING. Only the pod is important, with a Mesa can solo first 20 waves but then the pod takes risks even with the fastest Mesa she can not just do it.

      Another thing is who dafuq bring Nova with a Mesa ? that's terribly wrong. and speed Nova is the worst in this case.

      Most important thing proves how ignorant the people replying here are. Mesa is not OP frame. she deals damage based on shooting which means you need speed (speed holster) and damage buffs like elemental damage buff or Mirage's Eclipse/Rhino's Roar. I can read some ridiculous numbers like wave 60 or something where lv100+ enemies appear. there is no way in hell u can do it wihout a buffer so it's either you trolling or just the dumbest ever.

      Last thing, in ODD catalysm is useless as hell since mobs don't shoot the pod, mutalist MOA is an exception, so it's not need.

      P.S I left a secret in my post try find it out :P

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    • You bring Nova because it basically negates Mesa's issue with clearing waves. Molecular Prime spreads when you kill an enemy, and the slow effect causes enemies to cluster because they can't break out of squad and chase down targets. 

      Utilizing Molecular Prime with Mesa's Peacekeeper improves the damage she deals to primed targets, prevents them from getting close enough to damage the pod, and allows Mesa to easily clear multiple enemies with a single target ability. 

      You bring Limbo in order to prevent any and all damage from being dealt to the defense object while easing the energy costs of the abilities people are using; also, if anything makes it too close to your camping point, he can leave Cataclysm and dispatch it with exceptional ease. 

      These three Warframes work so well together, it's absurd. There are a few other frames that can work quite well as the fourth member of the cell, but I personally prefer bringing either Volt or Oberon.

      Volt's Electric Shield enables you to utilize weaponry across planes while amping crit builds, his Shock is capable of increasing Mesa's damage while providing moderate crowd control, and his Speed allows easy extraction, especially when used in tandem with Banish.

      Oberon however, has a more potent damage amplification augment in Smite Infusion, excellent crowd control and a handy forced radiation debuff with Reckoning, and excellent support capabilities with Renewal. 

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    • ^^ Nova is a buffer. And Limbo allows energy regen to Banshee, so who the hell can reach the pod?

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    • lmao why would you bring SPEED HOLSTER on a Mesa for T4 void? Corrosive Projection yields better damage, and this benefit increases as enemies scale higher in level (resulting in higher armor values).

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    • I have played Frost since he was released and he works perfectly fine on T4 Def. 60+ Waves without breaking a sweat.

      What all those "Pros" dont get is that his Snow Globe is not supposed to hold its own with its HP. After a while everything that has HP will be 1-2 shot by the heavies in T4. What you actually have to do is forfeit ability duration completely and just go for Energy Efficiency and Range (Flow, Fleeting Expertise, Streamline, Stretch & Overextended aswell as Vitality and Redirection. One mod is free to choose for yourself in this build. I picked Natural Talent to compensate possible lag).

      Then it costs 12,5 Energy, is big enough to stop explosion splash-damage and slow everything that comes close to a crawl. Now you will say "Yeah, lol, but it only has 11 secs duration and like no HP" - Yupp, but that is the point. You recast it every 5th second. This way it absorbs all the damage and becomes stronger. Then the next globe absorbs the first and then absorbs incoming damage again. It does not matter whether the enemies deal 1dps or 100000000000 dps, your globe is invulnerable all the time, as long as you don't fuck up your timing. I use the Opticor for it - with my mods i can make 2 shots or 1 shot and 1 reload before i have to recast.

      You get inpenetrable defenses at the costs of roughly 3 Energy per second.

      Aren't you happy you have someone who tells you how to play Frost properly in TopTier missions?

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    • Or... and hear me out, here, this is gonna be crazy:

      You could play Limbo and use a "globe" with infinite health, complete damage immunity, and a lifespan of 40+ seconds even with maximum efficiency.

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    • EXN0V4 wrote: Or... and hear me out, here, this is gonna be crazy:

      You could play Limbo and use a "globe" with infinite health, complete damage immunity, and a lifespan of 40+ seconds even with maximum efficiency.

      ...that also completely disables your means of dealing damage except for abilities. And we all know how well damage-dealing abilities work in high-level missions (hint: they don't).

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    • If you're referring to the inability to fire weapons from inside the globe, yes, it is a bit of an issue. However, I still believe that the advantages of Cataclysm as cover outweigh its defects. And while damage dealing abilities tend to fall off quickly, there are ways to work around that, be they using Volt's Electric Shield or Mesa's Peacemaker.

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    • Cataclysm + Volts Shield lets you to kill enemies outside of the cataclysim with your weapons. That works both ways actually. so globes advantage is just slow and grenades don't go through it.

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    • Grenades will deal damage inside, however the projectile will not physically pass through the bubble as it would with Cataclysm. Bear in mind though, the projectile still does not deal damage. 

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    • 5.20.203.132 wrote:
      Cataclysm + Volts Shield lets you to kill enemies outside of the cataclysim with your weapons. That works both ways actually. so globes advantage is just slow and grenades don't go through it.

      And that you are relying on a Volt maybe?

      Let me see, a particle-hell and enemies always being right in my face, as long as i don't get another ton of particles placed in front of me to shoot the enemies i can't see by then vs. a basically invisible, 100% invincible, slowing Globe that slows everything that comes in down to 1/3 of their speed (including attack speed) and does not require support from any particular frame.

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    • 88.159.116.156 wrote:
      frost's globe has the advantage that you can use it as cover and shoot wth your normal weapons.

      Limbo's cataclysm is pretty good, but compltely disables normal weapons from affecting the outside: only powers go through it.


      If you have 2-3 mesas, sure, bring limbo. that's the best way to go.

      However, if you don't have mesas, just take a frost + loki (volt can also help, because his shield is indestructible. you can place it strategically to cover against most gunfire, whilst the globe stops the random shots)

      with volt shields into the cataclysm, you can use your weapons OUT of the cataclysm. Just need to fire trough the shield when it's in the cataclysm.

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    • Simple answer is, bring Limbo if you want to rely only on warframe powers. Bring frost if you actually want to use your weapons.

      I've never actually had a useful limbo on any team I've been, so I don't really seek them out. And heaven forbid if they nerf Mesa's ult, that's like the only thing useful in conjunction with cataclysm people are shouting out here.

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    • Siolith wrote:
      88.159.116.156 wrote:
      frost's globe has the advantage that you can use it as cover and shoot wth your normal weapons.

      Limbo's cataclysm is pretty good, but compltely disables normal weapons from affecting the outside: only powers go through it.


      If you have 2-3 mesas, sure, bring limbo. that's the best way to go.

      However, if you don't have mesas, just take a frost + loki (volt can also help, because his shield is indestructible. you can place it strategically to cover against most gunfire, whilst the globe stops the random shots)

      with volt shields into the cataclysm, you can use your weapons OUT of the cataclysm. Just need to fire trough the shield when it's in the cataclysm.

      But you do understand, that this is a glitch and will be fixed, right?

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    • Kasseopea wrote: But you do understand, that this is a glitch and will be fixed, right?

      How do you know?

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    • Wah, Limbo vs Frost is like Dread vs Paris Prime. They both have pros and cons and they both can do the job at extreme high level. That's it.

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    • Phantom Bootie Slap wrote:

      Kasseopea wrote: But you do understand, that this is a glitch and will be fixed, right?

      How do you know?


      Because you are not supposed to do that. Limbo goes with techno-babble of time/space separation, you cant theoretically bypass that, even with volt's shield. Thus it is not intended to work this way. Read the lore.

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    • I will test it again, but the strategy with volt' shields worked very well 2 days ago.

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    • Kasseopea wrote:

      Phantom Bootie Slap wrote:

      Kasseopea wrote: But you do understand, that this is a glitch and will be fixed, right?

      How do you know?


      Because you are not supposed to do that. Limbo goes with techno-babble of time/space separation, you cant theoretically bypass that, even with volt's shield. Thus it is not intended to work this way. Read the lore.

      Ogris is not supposed to be silent. What's your point?

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    • Personally I cant stand limbos cataclysm, but now that i realize powers make it through i might be able to swing it. I just really hate not being able to shoot something.

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    • In my mind, Cataclysm is one of those abilities that is just so damn variable it's hard to lock down how and when you should use it. Do you build max duration for long lasting buffs and rifting, or minimum duration for clearing? Do you want max range in order to make use of Rift Surge, or minimum range for deployable cover? Do you want to focus on power strength for more potent buffs and debuffs, or ignore it completely for utility? 

      The amount of different ways Limbo can be built around Cataclysm is staggering.

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    • Phantom Bootie Slap wrote:

      Kasseopea wrote:

      Phantom Bootie Slap wrote:

      Kasseopea wrote: But you do understand, that this is a glitch and will be fixed, right?

      How do you know?

      Because you are not supposed to do that. Limbo goes with techno-babble of time/space separation, you cant theoretically bypass that, even with volt's shield. Thus it is not intended to work this way. Read the lore.
      Ogris is not supposed to be silent. What's your point?

      Point being, that stuff gets fixed in every patch.

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    • Rift is an ability, abilities go through rift, volt's shield is an ability, bullets that go through the shield are part of that ability, thus those bullets are ability imbued, which doesn't seem to be something that need to be fixed.

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    • TraumaCaspian wrote:
      Augument Mod win : Ash invisiblity for your team mates

      aaaand the pod?...team can revive themselves..the pod not...in defense pod is vital so is the protector if the protector is alive while the pod is destroyed....its a useless tactic...and if the pod is alive and the protector is dead but with revive(or no revive) but there is a survivor he will finish it to 5th wave and leave and if all died...its a unknowledgeable tenno  team in a hard mission(or easy)

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    • OY!  You crazy kiddies!  Limbo, Volt, Banshee, Vauban/Zephyr.  That is all.  Limbo is energy and pod defense, as well as hunting down MIA enemies.  Banshee is all the damage amp you will EVER need if she's got Resonance slotted.  Volt lets you shoot out of the shield, preferably with max punch through and a high clip/RoF weapon to deal with nullifiers before they roflFCK Limbo.  Ideally the party will have somas, or prisma gorgons, because of the crit buff from volt's shield.  Vauban/Zephyr are for when the freaking nullifiers right up on the Catacalysm anyways, since they both have ways of CCing nullifiers out of their bubbles.  Zephyr has the added bonus of being able to protect the pod from a few stray shots (with a build with some good +range and Turbulence) when Limbo has to recast catacalysm, but Vauban is more reliable for nullie ccing.  Your choice.

      Win.

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    • 197.160.210.96 wrote:
      lol are all replies here made by trolls ? 

      seriously dafuq is this crap.

      First of all we don't massure it with low levels/difficulities but of course the highest. so if you put in comparison anything else except T4 void or Pluto, Ceres and Eris then your whole explanation is flawed.

      Secondly, the post talks about Limbo in particular and compare him to Frost as only in defensive abilities. who dafuq brought Mesa to the discussion ?! Of course every Mesa needs a limbo especially the ones with maxed Blind Rage but not every Limbo needs a Mesa, there are other tactics can be used with her being in the team.

      Now let me an actual productive answer varied from the crap comments above: Limbo's Catalysm is mainaly used to dodge Bombard missiles, they fly through the sphere and explode away from it, and of course the most important properity and advantage since in T4 20+ waves the Bombards get increasement in range and blast damage. The thing that Frost's globe can't handle it anymore especially when there are more than one bombard, making the globe a pit of explosions.

      However, Frost's globe prevents enemies from reaching its center, i.e the pod, which catalysm isn't capable of as well as preventing short-ranged enemies like MOA from reaching inside. Note that if a Mesa stands on the pod she can't hit the ones beneth her and in high waves these ones can destroy the pod in couple hits.

      Saying that "only" Catalysm is useful in high waves is just ridiculous and stupid. The higher the enemies the higher their damage and people always forget that in defense mission YOU worth NOTHING. Only the pod is important, with a Mesa can solo first 20 waves but then the pod takes risks even with the fastest Mesa she can not just do it.

      Another thing is who dafuq bring Nova with a Mesa ? that's terribly wrong. and speed Nova is the worst in this case.

      Most important thing proves how ignorant the people replying here are. Mesa is not OP frame. she deals damage based on shooting which means you need speed (speed holster) and damage buffs like elemental damage buff or Mirage's Eclipse/Rhino's Roar. I can read some ridiculous numbers like wave 60 or something where lv100+ enemies appear. there is no way in hell u can do it wihout a buffer so it's either you trolling or just the dumbest ever.

      Last thing, in ODD catalysm is useless as hell since mobs don't shoot the pod, mutalist MOA is an exception, so it's not need.

      P.S I left a secret in my post try find it out :P

      But here's the thing about frost's snow globe. It doesn't prevent enemies from reaching the center, it slows them down, but it doesn't stop any mobs going in.

      Also, you mentioned that the bombard's range increases per wave. Let's be serious and actually realize on what level does the bombard have to be to even affect the pod in a cataclysm?

      Here's how your thing fails:

      If a mob/player launches a projectile, it remains in the same dimension where it was shot. But if the mob/player who shot the projectile was transported in the rift after shooting the projectile, it still stays in the same dimension as before.

      When Bombards shoot at the pod inside the cataclysm, it won't damage anything inside the sphere. Since the original place where the projectile was shot was in the real world, not in the rift.

      But if a Bombard was sent into the rift THEN firing a rocket towards the pod inside the sphere, it will damage who ever was in there.

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    • ModernDarpa wrote:
      197.160.210.96 wrote:
      lol are all replies here made by trolls ? 

      seriously dafuq is this crap.

      First of all we don't massure it with low levels/difficulities but of course the highest. so if you put in comparison anything else except T4 void or Pluto, Ceres and Eris then your whole explanation is flawed.

      Secondly, the post talks about Limbo in particular and compare him to Frost as only in defensive abilities. who dafuq brought Mesa to the discussion ?! Of course every Mesa needs a limbo especially the ones with maxed Blind Rage but not every Limbo needs a Mesa, there are other tactics can be used with her being in the team.

      Now let me an actual productive answer varied from the crap comments above: Limbo's Catalysm is mainaly used to dodge Bombard missiles, they fly through the sphere and explode away from it, and of course the most important properity and advantage since in T4 20+ waves the Bombards get increasement in range and blast damage. The thing that Frost's globe can't handle it anymore especially when there are more than one bombard, making the globe a pit of explosions.

      However, Frost's globe prevents enemies from reaching its center, i.e the pod, which catalysm isn't capable of as well as preventing short-ranged enemies like MOA from reaching inside. Note that if a Mesa stands on the pod she can't hit the ones beneth her and in high waves these ones can destroy the pod in couple hits.

      Saying that "only" Catalysm is useful in high waves is just ridiculous and stupid. The higher the enemies the higher their damage and people always forget that in defense mission YOU worth NOTHING. Only the pod is important, with a Mesa can solo first 20 waves but then the pod takes risks even with the fastest Mesa she can not just do it.

      Another thing is who dafuq bring Nova with a Mesa ? that's terribly wrong. and speed Nova is the worst in this case.

      Most important thing proves how ignorant the people replying here are. Mesa is not OP frame. she deals damage based on shooting which means you need speed (speed holster) and damage buffs like elemental damage buff or Mirage's Eclipse/Rhino's Roar. I can read some ridiculous numbers like wave 60 or something where lv100+ enemies appear. there is no way in hell u can do it wihout a buffer so it's either you trolling or just the dumbest ever.

      Last thing, in ODD catalysm is useless as hell since mobs don't shoot the pod, mutalist MOA is an exception, so it's not need.

      P.S I left a secret in my post try find it out :P

      But here's the thing about frost's snow globe. It doesn't prevent enemies from reaching the center, it slows them down, but it doesn't stop any mobs going in.

      Also, you mentioned that the bombard's range increases per wave. Let's be serious and actually realize on what level does the bombard have to be to even affect the pod in a cataclysm?

      Here's how your thing fails:

      If a mob/player launches a projectile, it remains in the same dimension where it was shot. But if the mob/player who shot the projectile was transported in the rift after shooting the projectile, it still stays in the same dimension as before.

      When Bombards shoot at the pod inside the cataclysm, it won't damage anything inside the sphere. Since the original place where the projectile was shot was in the real world, not in the rift.

      But if a Bombard was sent into the rift THEN firing a rocket towards the pod inside the sphere, it will damage who ever was in there.


      Frost has still better control than Limbo. With max range, you can spam his ulti to keep enemies staggered if someone has to be revived or anything. Besides, you can perfectly see while being in a black bubble and you cant see shit when you are in cataclysm

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    • Yeah, and how many Frosts roll anything outside of the "Infested" palette for their energy color?

      Hmm?

      Hmmmmm?

      HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?!

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    • EXN0V4 wrote:
      Yeah, and how many Frosts roll anything outside of the "Infested" palette for their energy color?

      Hmm?

      Hmmmmm?

      HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?!

      All the non-retarded.

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    • There are multiple legitimate ways to build Snow Globe and Cataclysm. Snow Globe can be built to have high HP and duration, or low cost and duration for invincibility uptime. Cataclysm can be built with enormous range for weapon usage and energy, or with really tiny range to protect the pod and Mesa while the others stunlock enemies with various abilities. I can't say I have a preference for which one I'd have on my team, but I am really pleased that after all the naysaying when Limbo first came out, people finally consider Limbo to be a very good frame in a lot of high level play.

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    • EXN0V4 wrote:
      Yeah, and how many Frosts roll anything outside of the "Infested" palette for their energy color?

      Hmm?

      Hmmmmm?

      HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?!

      People use the infested color palette?!?! I assumed everyone used Ice. Or be kind of quirky and a little crazy and use fire. O.O

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    • Grunni wrote:
      There are multiple legitimate ways to build Snow Globe and Cataclysm. Snow Globe can be built to have high HP and duration, or low cost and duration for invincibility uptime. Cataclysm can be built with enormous range for weapon usage and energy, or with really tiny range to protect the pod and Mesa while the others stunlock enemies with various abilities. I can't say I have a preference for which one I'd have on my team, but I am really pleased that after all the naysaying when Limbo first came out, people finally consider Limbo to be a very good frame in a lot of high level play.

      Uhm...no, wrong. If you build it on high-hp and duration you just end up wasting energy on high-level mobs who will one-shot it anyways after 5-6 seconds. The only proper way to use the snow globe against high-lv-enemies is to set it on low duration (since it wont hold even those 11 seconds) and lower the hp into power-efficiency to use 12,5 power per globe.

      Everything else is just as useful as a pistol that shoots backwards, unless you are playing some lowbie-missions.

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    • Frost is useful to teamates at all times. Limbo trolls teamates 90% of the time by making them unable to attack, making enemies unable to be attacked, or spending their entire time spamming skills just to keep everything within the void since none of their own powers help. also, Limbo screws up any mission involving a data tablet, makes it so tenno cannot loot pickups mods or resources.

      IMO, Limbo was a cool idea, but DE severly fumbled the implementation. Frost wins every time

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    • RabidScholar wrote:
      EXN0V4 wrote:
      Yeah, and how many Frosts roll anything outside of the "Infested" palette for their energy color?

      Hmm?

      Hmmmmm?

      HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?!

      People use the infested color palette?!?! I assumed everyone used Ice. Or be kind of quirky and a little crazy and use fire. O.O

      I use the white from Gamma set, and the nice rich reds from valentine sets to make my frost candycane stripes. matches well with the candycane scythe skin when I want to be silly. Unfortunatly none of the scythe weapons are really that great anymore. Hate and Reaper are both rather 'meh', and if used activly their stance nearly locks you in place

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    • What's wrong with having both a frost and limbo?

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    • 208.36.139.7 wrote:
      What's wrong with having both a frost and limbo?

      Nothing.

      What should be done is minimum range for limbo and maximum for frost. this way you can slow them with frosts globe and keep the pod invincible without having to forfeit regular weapons for abilities. (though you can do this with a nova spaming M-prime and deal more damage.)

      Not that the weapons would be doing much after a certain time...

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    • RabidScholar wrote:
      EXN0V4 wrote:
      Yeah, and how many Frosts roll anything outside of the "Infested" palette for their energy color?

      Hmm?

      Hmmmmm?

      HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?!

      People use the infested color palette?!?! I assumed everyone used Ice. Or be kind of quirky and a little crazy and use fire. O.O


      Hahahahahaha.

      My frost uses the darkest blue from the Shamrock pallete.  It's close enough to black that everyone can see through it but the globe isn't so invisible that I can't even tell when it has worn off.  Either way, sheeple suing flat black OR flat white on Snow Globe are idiots.  it should have color.  That color just needs to be really dark, problem solved.

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    • OMG OMG, you guys are so retarded xD

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    • How about a limbo, mesa, slow nova and GP mag CRUSHER in T4 def?

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    • Has anyone ever considered the fact that Limbo and Frost are BOTH good in different ways?..

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    • 74.196.161.185 wrote:
      Has anyone ever considered the fact that Limbo and Frost are BOTH good in different ways?..

      Have you considered to be b!tch slapped for such a comment?

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    • 74.196.161.185 wrote:
      Has anyone ever considered the fact that Limbo and Frost are BOTH good in different ways?..

      You forgot to write "tl;dr".

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    • Kasseopea wrote:

      Because you are not supposed to do that. Limbo goes with techno-babble of time/space separation, you cant theoretically bypass that, even with volt's shield. Thus it is not intended to work this way. Read the lore.

      Since when is the lore accurate? DarkSector was supposed ot be the prequel then was not, they retconned the Tenno Council from Nova's codex entry. DE and accuracy in lore is a joke - loe can't and shouldn't be used to determine if an ability can work in conjuction with another frame's abilities. 

      I've played Frost since I acquired him in 2014, and let me tell you the same thing others are saying here - RIP Frost.

      I love playing Limbo with non-prime weapon wielding Disarm Lokis and Speed Novas, I like being able to use more than just weapons and also incorporate abilities into my gameplay, something that a Limbo with a small Cataclysm bubble can offer. The bubble can cover the pod and Mesa while the other two just completely WRECK entire waves. There's a variety on weapons, abilities and gameplay that I can enjoy more with Limbo than with Frost.

      Frost works on an outdated strategy that didn't include Nullfiers and Bombards. Gameplay is restricted to staying in the Snowglobe to prevent damage to oneself from the hard-hitting heavy units. Some Prime and Boltor Prime are neccessary or else kiss your progress goodbye. Frost can only get me to waves 70-80 and after that it's a struggle to even stay alive. Limbo can easile take me to 120+ on T4. No joke. (I'll try to get a screenshot later on in this thread.)

      Frost's gameplay is very restrictive, while Limbo's is not. Limbo fills in as a Trinity as well with energy regen, and even sports a Rhino Iron Skin nockoff with Banish and Rift Walk. Frost doesn't even fill the role of a good defense when Bombards come in and begin to blast the globe.

      RIP Frost. 

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    • 173.167.157.117 wrote:
      Kasseopea wrote:

      Because you are not supposed to do that. Limbo goes with techno-babble of time/space separation, you cant theoretically bypass that, even with volt's shield. Thus it is not intended to work this way. Read the lore.

      Since when is the lore accurate? DarkSector was supposed ot be the prequel then was not, they retconned the Tenno Council from Nova's codex entry. DE and accuracy in lore is a joke - loe can't and shouldn't be used to determine if an ability can work in conjuction with another frame's abilities. 

      I've played Frost since I acquired him in 2014, and let me tell you the same thing others are saying here - RIP Frost.

      I love playing Limbo with non-prime weapon wielding Disarm Lokis and Speed Novas, I like being able to use more than just weapons and also incorporate abilities into my gameplay, something that a Limbo with a small Cataclysm bubble can offer. The bubble can cover the pod and Mesa while the other two just completely WRECK entire waves. There's a variety on weapons, abilities and gameplay that I can enjoy more with Limbo than with Frost.

      Frost works on an outdated strategy that didn't include Nullfiers and Bombards. Gameplay is restricted to staying in the Snowglobe to prevent damage to oneself from the hard-hitting heavy units. Some Prime and Boltor Prime are neccessary or else kiss your progress goodbye. Frost can only get me to waves 70-80 and after that it's a struggle to even stay alive. Limbo can easile take me to 120+ on T4. No joke. (I'll try to get a screenshot later on in this thread.)

      Frost's gameplay is very restrictive, while Limbo's is not. Limbo fills in as a Trinity as well with energy regen, and even sports a Rhino Iron Skin nockoff with Banish and Rift Walk. Frost doesn't even fill the role of a good defense when Bombards come in and begin to blast the globe.

      RIP Frost. 

      RIP Frost? Never heard more bullshit in one post. It's still the strongest Frame as long as the team is disciplined and knows what it is doing. Bombards - as already explained - do not reach far enough into the globe with their AoE to kill players as long as you are skilled properly. Nullifiers are easily taken out with either melee or a fast firing weapon.

      Frost requires knowledge and skill, while Limbo is a Troll-Frame. Frost's globe is also invincible if you choose the right mods, but it was all explained already.

        Loading editor
    • Kasseopea wrote:

      RIP Frost? Never heard more bullshit in one post. It's still the strongest Frame as long as the team is disciplined and knows what it is doing. Bombards - as already explained - do not reach far enough into the globe with their AoE to kill players as long as you are skilled properly. Nullifiers are easily taken out with either melee or a fast firing weapon.

      Frost requires knowledge and skill, while Limbo is a Troll-Frame. Frost's globe is also invincible if you choose the right mods, but it was all explained already.

      Bombards' Blast damage and AoE do actually harm the pod, while the nullifiers have snipers that one-hit kill most frames after 30 waves. Nullifiers aren't so bad since a Valkyr can take them out, but Bombards do make Frost an outdated piece to an outstanding strategy. Limbo does the job better, and while I loved Frost for what he offered, I would still use Limbo over him.

      You also can't trust people to be disciplined and know what the f*ck they're supposed to do - sometimes you get the best team or people that just started the game. Mastery Rank is nothing anymore either - they had the time and resources to sink in to getting a higher mastery rank, that's all the fancy number means. Limbo was used primarily as a trolling tool because that Archwing Update was so broken most players loved being able to Rift Walk around Stalker, Banishing Pods and people, and overall abusing the broken aspects of the new frame. Not many Limbo players left around two updates later. Those playing him now play him according to the restrictions and 'nerfs' imposed by DE to actually make him a less 'troll' frame.

      Frost's Globe goes down in two three hits after a time as well. No such thing as invincible with something that possesses HP, as opposed to something that has duration. (Iron Skin vs Hysteria kind of comparison.)

      In terms of what they each stand on individually, I would probably say Frost is my go-to for a simple defense mission in invasions or alerts - Limbo is made of paper and would not do good against Infested or Corpus if he runs out of energy. (Because let's face it - Frost was made with a supporting tank role in mind, while Limbo had a cool idea but poor execution.) Limbo has no direction, hence his variety of roles he can fill in any defense. Limbo is a caster and Frost a tank so I can't really say it's fair to compare them but the roles that Limbo can fill are vastly greater than Frost and that is so much more useful in any defense or mission.

      That is what makes Limbo the better choice.

        Loading editor
    • 173.167.157.117 wrote:
      Kasseopea wrote:

      RIP Frost? Never heard more bullshit in one post. It's still the strongest Frame as long as the team is disciplined and knows what it is doing. Bombards - as already explained - do not reach far enough into the globe with their AoE to kill players as long as you are skilled properly. Nullifiers are easily taken out with either melee or a fast firing weapon.

      Frost requires knowledge and skill, while Limbo is a Troll-Frame. Frost's globe is also invincible if you choose the right mods, but it was all explained already.

      Bombards' Blast damage and AoE do actually harm the pod, while the nullifiers have snipers that one-hit kill most frames after 30 waves. Nullifiers aren't so bad since a Valkyr can take them out, but Bombards do make Frost an outdated piece to an outstanding strategy. Limbo does the job better, and while I loved Frost for what he offered, I would still use Limbo over him.

      You also can't trust people to be disciplined and know what the f*ck they're supposed to do - sometimes you get the best team or people that just started the game. Mastery Rank is nothing anymore either - they had the time and resources to sink in to getting a higher mastery rank, that's all the fancy number means. Limbo was used primarily as a trolling tool because that Archwing Update was so broken most players loved being able to Rift Walk around Stalker, Banishing Pods and people, and overall abusing the broken aspects of the new frame. Not many Limbo players left around two updates later. Those playing him now play him according to the restrictions and 'nerfs' imposed by DE to actually make him a less 'troll' frame.

      Frost's Globe goes down in two three hits after a time as well. No such thing as invincible with something that possesses HP, as opposed to something that has duration. (Iron Skin vs Hysteria kind of comparison.)

      In terms of what they each stand on individually, I would probably say Frost is my go-to for a simple defense mission in invasions or alerts - Limbo is made of paper and would not do good against Infested or Corpus if he runs out of energy. (Because let's face it - Frost was made with a supporting tank role in mind, while Limbo had a cool idea but poor execution.) Limbo has no direction, hence his variety of roles he can fill in any defense. Limbo is a caster and Frost a tank so I can't really say it's fair to compare them but the roles that Limbo can fill are vastly greater than Frost and that is so much more useful in any defense or mission.

      That is what makes Limbo the better choice.

      frost or limbo is just one of my best defense masters back when the sg is not yet nerfed IT is invincible but now it is down on its knee but i still love frost as my immobile tank while limbo as my untouchable defense setter i dont need to explain for me if they are in one team the defense is safe up to any waves as long their weapon and they know when to set their skills on

        Loading editor
    • Areonlight35 wrote:
      173.167.157.117 wrote:
      Kasseopea wrote:

      RIP Frost? Never heard more bullshit in one post. It's still the strongest Frame as long as the team is disciplined and knows what it is doing. Bombards - as already explained - do not reach far enough into the globe with their AoE to kill players as long as you are skilled properly. Nullifiers are easily taken out with either melee or a fast firing weapon.

      Frost requires knowledge and skill, while Limbo is a Troll-Frame. Frost's globe is also invincible if you choose the right mods, but it was all explained already.

      Bombards' Blast damage and AoE do actually harm the pod, while the nullifiers have snipers that one-hit kill most frames after 30 waves. Nullifiers aren't so bad since a Valkyr can take them out, but Bombards do make Frost an outdated piece to an outstanding strategy. Limbo does the job better, and while I loved Frost for what he offered, I would still use Limbo over him.

      You also can't trust people to be disciplined and know what the f*ck they're supposed to do - sometimes you get the best team or people that just started the game. Mastery Rank is nothing anymore either - they had the time and resources to sink in to getting a higher mastery rank, that's all the fancy number means. Limbo was used primarily as a trolling tool because that Archwing Update was so broken most players loved being able to Rift Walk around Stalker, Banishing Pods and people, and overall abusing the broken aspects of the new frame. Not many Limbo players left around two updates later. Those playing him now play him according to the restrictions and 'nerfs' imposed by DE to actually make him a less 'troll' frame.

      Frost's Globe goes down in two three hits after a time as well. No such thing as invincible with something that possesses HP, as opposed to something that has duration. (Iron Skin vs Hysteria kind of comparison.)

      In terms of what they each stand on individually, I would probably say Frost is my go-to for a simple defense mission in invasions or alerts - Limbo is made of paper and would not do good against Infested or Corpus if he runs out of energy. (Because let's face it - Frost was made with a supporting tank role in mind, while Limbo had a cool idea but poor execution.) Limbo has no direction, hence his variety of roles he can fill in any defense. Limbo is a caster and Frost a tank so I can't really say it's fair to compare them but the roles that Limbo can fill are vastly greater than Frost and that is so much more useful in any defense or mission.

      That is what makes Limbo the better choice.

      frost or limbo is just one of my best defense masters back when the sg is not yet nerfed IT is invincible but now it is down on its knee but i still love frost as my immobile tank while limbo as my untouchable defense setter i dont need to explain for me if they are in one team the defense is safe up to any waves as long their weapon and they know when to set their skills on


      *Sigh* Noobs gonna noob i guess. Ok, fine, let's explain it to those of you who apparently have no idea how the new Globe works. It is invincible for 4 Seconds after being cast. During that time it absorbs all the damage it would normally take and turns it into HP. The stronger the enemies, the more HP it has, the longer it can hold.

      If you recast the Globe inside an exisiting one, it replaces it and absorbs the remaining HP, while also being invincible for 4 seconds and absorbing all incoming damage into its HP.

      A proper Frost goes for max range & max efficiency and just spams the globe every 4-5 seconds. In defense im just standing on the pod and using my Opticor to dispatch VIP. Every 2 shots or 1 shot and 1 reload i recast the bubble and it does not go down. You know why? Because it is literally being invincible the whole time. Even if it had 1 HP on it's own without the absorbtion. And even if i would have to go down to res someone or activate a laser at some point, or being knocked down, it would have by then so much HP, no ammount of firepower the wave could bring would be enough to take it down for its duration.

      But yeah, we definately proven that you actually have to know what the actuall fuck you are doing when playing Frost.

        Loading editor
    • Kasseopea wrote: Areonlight35 wrote: 173.167.157.117 wrote: Kasseopea wrote: RIP Frost? Never heard more bullshit in one post. It's still the strongest Frame as long as the team is disciplined and knows what it is doing. Bombards - as already explained - do not reach far enough into the globe with their AoE to kill players as long as you are skilled properly. Nullifiers are easily taken out with either melee or a fast firing weapon. Frost requires knowledge and skill, while Limbo is a Troll-Frame. Frost's globe is also invincible if you choose the right mods, but it was all explained already.Bombards' Blast damage and AoE do actually harm the pod, while the nullifiers have snipers that one-hit kill most frames after 30 waves. Nullifiers aren't so bad since a Valkyr can take them out, but Bombards do make Frost an outdated piece to an outstanding strategy. Limbo does the job better, and while I loved Frost for what he offered, I would still use Limbo over him. You also can't trust people to be disciplined and know what the f*ck they're supposed to do - sometimes you get the best team or people that just started the game. Mastery Rank is nothing anymore either - they had the time and resources to sink in to getting a higher mastery rank, that's all the fancy number means. Limbo was used primarily as a trolling tool because that Archwing Update was so broken most players loved being able to Rift Walk around Stalker, Banishing Pods and people, and overall abusing the broken aspects of the new frame. Not many Limbo players left around two updates later. Those playing him now play him according to the restrictions and 'nerfs' imposed by DE to actually make him a less 'troll' frame. Frost's Globe goes down in two three hits after a time as well. No such thing as invincible with something that possesses HP, as opposed to something that has duration. (Iron Skin vs Hysteria kind of comparison.) In terms of what they each stand on individually, I would probably say Frost is my go-to for a simple defense mission in invasions or alerts - Limbo is made of paper and would not do good against Infested or Corpus if he runs out of energy. (Because let's face it - Frost was made with a supporting tank role in mind, while Limbo had a cool idea but poor execution.) Limbo has no direction, hence his variety of roles he can fill in any defense. Limbo is a caster and Frost a tank so I can't really say it's fair to compare them but the roles that Limbo can fill are vastly greater than Frost and that is so much more useful in any defense or mission. That is what makes Limbo the better choice.frost or limbo is just one of my best defense masters back when the sg is not yet nerfed IT is invincible but now it is down on its knee but i still love frost as my immobile tank while limbo as my untouchable defense setter i dont need to explain for me if they are in one team the defense is safe up to any waves as long their weapon and they know when to set their skills on

      • Sigh* Noobs gonna noob i guess. Ok, fine, let's explain it to those of you who apparently have no idea how the new Globe works. It is invincible for 4 Seconds after being cast. During that time it absorbs all the damage it would normally take and turns it into HP. The stronger the enemies, the more HP it has, the longer it can hold. If you recast the Globe inside an exisiting one, it replaces it and absorbs the remaining HP, while also being invincible for 4 seconds and absorbing all incoming damage into its HP. A proper Frost goes for max range & max efficiency and just spams the globe every 4-5 seconds. In defense im just standing on the pod and using my Opticor to dispatch VIP. Every 2 shots or 1 shot and 1 reload i recast the bubble and it does not go down. You know why? Because it is literally being invincible the whole time. Even if it had 1 HP on it's own without the absorbtion. And even if i would have to go down to res someone or activate a laser at some point, or being knocked down, it would have by then so much HP, no ammount of firepower the wave could bring would be enough to take it down for its duration. But yeah, we definately proven that you actually have to know what the actuall fuck you are doing when playing Frost.woah are you just being too offensive right now? frost is just usually my low-mid defense mission,limbo for higher tiers you dont have to be so rude well thats how i feel i am just saying whats my opinion and i know how frost works, so do you mind please if you will be speaking on other peoples opinion please do try to think its the OPINION not my "stone to throw"  and i beg your pardon if my grammar is wrong i am just here to clarify I USE FROST in low to mid tier defense and limbo to higher tiers of defense you dont have to be so pissed on someones opinion if you are give them a enlightenment about something than a somehow offensive response(if they feel it is) thank you for taking time to read and if not why did you?
        Loading editor
    • Areonlight35 wrote:
      Kasseopea wrote:

      Areonlight35 wrote: 173.167.157.117 wrote: Kasseopea wrote: RIP Frost? Never heard more bullshit in one post. It's still the strongest Frame as long as the team is disciplined and knows what it is doing. Bombards - as already explained - do not reach far enough into the globe with their AoE to kill players as long as you are skilled properly. Nullifiers are easily taken out with either melee or a fast firing weapon. Frost requires knowledge and skill, while Limbo is a Troll-Frame. Frost's globe is also invincible if you choose the right mods, but it was all explained already.Bombards' Blast damage and AoE do actually harm the pod, while the nullifiers have snipers that one-hit kill most frames after 30 waves. Nullifiers aren't so bad since a Valkyr can take them out, but Bombards do make Frost an outdated piece to an outstanding strategy. Limbo does the job better, and while I loved Frost for what he offered, I would still use Limbo over him. You also can't trust people to be disciplined and know what the f*ck they're supposed to do - sometimes you get the best team or people that just started the game. Mastery Rank is nothing anymore either - they had the time and resources to sink in to getting a higher mastery rank, that's all the fancy number means. Limbo was used primarily as a trolling tool because that Archwing Update was so broken most players loved being able to Rift Walk around Stalker, Banishing Pods and people, and overall abusing the broken aspects of the new frame. Not many Limbo players left around two updates later. Those playing him now play him according to the restrictions and 'nerfs' imposed by DE to actually make him a less 'troll' frame. Frost's Globe goes down in two three hits after a time as well. No such thing as invincible with something that possesses HP, as opposed to something that has duration. (Iron Skin vs Hysteria kind of comparison.) In terms of what they each stand on individually, I would probably say Frost is my go-to for a simple defense mission in invasions or alerts - Limbo is made of paper and would not do good against Infested or Corpus if he runs out of energy. (Because let's face it - Frost was made with a supporting tank role in mind, while Limbo had a cool idea but poor execution.) Limbo has no direction, hence his variety of roles he can fill in any defense. Limbo is a caster and Frost a tank so I can't really say it's fair to compare them but the roles that Limbo can fill are vastly greater than Frost and that is so much more useful in any defense or mission. That is what makes Limbo the better choice.frost or limbo is just one of my best defense masters back when the sg is not yet nerfed IT is invincible but now it is down on its knee but i still love frost as my immobile tank while limbo as my untouchable defense setter i dont need to explain for me if they are in one team the defense is safe up to any waves as long their weapon and they know when to set their skills on

      • Sigh* Noobs gonna noob i guess. Ok, fine, let's explain it to those of you who apparently have no idea how the new Globe works. It is invincible for 4 Seconds after being cast. During that time it absorbs all the damage it would normally take and turns it into HP. The stronger the enemies, the more HP it has, the longer it can hold. If you recast the Globe inside an exisiting one, it replaces it and absorbs the remaining HP, while also being invincible for 4 seconds and absorbing all incoming damage into its HP. A proper Frost goes for max range & max efficiency and just spams the globe every 4-5 seconds. In defense im just standing on the pod and using my Opticor to dispatch VIP. Every 2 shots or 1 shot and 1 reload i recast the bubble and it does not go down. You know why? Because it is literally being invincible the whole time. Even if it had 1 HP on it's own without the absorbtion. And even if i would have to go down to res someone or activate a laser at some point, or being knocked down, it would have by then so much HP, no ammount of firepower the wave could bring would be enough to take it down for its duration. But yeah, we definately proven that you actually have to know what the actuall fuck you are doing when playing Frost.woah are you just being too offensive right now? frost is just usually my low-mid defense mission,limbo for higher tiers you dont have to be so rude well thats how i feel i am just saying whats my opinion and i know how frost works, so do you mind please if you will be speaking on other peoples opinion please do try to think its the OPINION not my "stone to throw"  and i beg your pardon if my grammar is wrong i am just here to clarify I USE FROST in low to mid tier defense and limbo to higher tiers of defense you dont have to be so pissed on someones opinion if you are give them a enlightenment about something than a somehow offensive response(if they feel it is) thank you for taking time to read and if not why did you?

      Yeah...not gonna be bothered to clear that mess up. Learn how to post properly, if you dont mind.

        Loading editor
    • Kasseopea wrote:
      Areonlight35 wrote:
      Kasseopea wrote:

      Areonlight35 wrote: 173.167.157.117 wrote: Kasseopea wrote: RIP Frost? Never heard more bullshit in one post. It's still the strongest Frame as long as the team is disciplined and knows what it is doing. Bombards - as already explained - do not reach far enough into the globe with their AoE to kill players as long as you are skilled properly. Nullifiers are easily taken out with either melee or a fast firing weapon. Frost requires knowledge and skill, while Limbo is a Troll-Frame. Frost's globe is also invincible if you choose the right mods, but it was all explained already.Bombards' Blast damage and AoE do actually harm the pod, while the nullifiers have snipers that one-hit kill most frames after 30 waves. Nullifiers aren't so bad since a Valkyr can take them out, but Bombards do make Frost an outdated piece to an outstanding strategy. Limbo does the job better, and while I loved Frost for what he offered, I would still use Limbo over him. You also can't trust people to be disciplined and know what the f*ck they're supposed to do - sometimes you get the best team or people that just started the game. Mastery Rank is nothing anymore either - they had the time and resources to sink in to getting a higher mastery rank, that's all the fancy number means. Limbo was used primarily as a trolling tool because that Archwing Update was so broken most players loved being able to Rift Walk around Stalker, Banishing Pods and people, and overall abusing the broken aspects of the new frame. Not many Limbo players left around two updates later. Those playing him now play him according to the restrictions and 'nerfs' imposed by DE to actually make him a less 'troll' frame. Frost's Globe goes down in two three hits after a time as well. No such thing as invincible with something that possesses HP, as opposed to something that has duration. (Iron Skin vs Hysteria kind of comparison.) In terms of what they each stand on individually, I would probably say Frost is my go-to for a simple defense mission in invasions or alerts - Limbo is made of paper and would not do good against Infested or Corpus if he runs out of energy. (Because let's face it - Frost was made with a supporting tank role in mind, while Limbo had a cool idea but poor execution.) Limbo has no direction, hence his variety of roles he can fill in any defense. Limbo is a caster and Frost a tank so I can't really say it's fair to compare them but the roles that Limbo can fill are vastly greater than Frost and that is so much more useful in any defense or mission. That is what makes Limbo the better choice.frost or limbo is just one of my best defense masters back when the sg is not yet nerfed IT is invincible but now it is down on its knee but i still love frost as my immobile tank while limbo as my untouchable defense setter i dont need to explain for me if they are in one team the defense is safe up to any waves as long their weapon and they know when to set their skills on

      • Sigh* Noobs gonna noob i guess. Ok, fine, let's explain it to those of you who apparently have no idea how the new Globe works. It is invincible for 4 Seconds after being cast. During that time it absorbs all the damage it would normally take and turns it into HP. The stronger the enemies, the more HP it has, the longer it can hold. If you recast the Globe inside an exisiting one, it replaces it and absorbs the remaining HP, while also being invincible for 4 seconds and absorbing all incoming damage into its HP. A proper Frost goes for max range & max efficiency and just spams the globe every 4-5 seconds. In defense im just standing on the pod and using my Opticor to dispatch VIP. Every 2 shots or 1 shot and 1 reload i recast the bubble and it does not go down. You know why? Because it is literally being invincible the whole time. Even if it had 1 HP on it's own without the absorbtion. And even if i would have to go down to res someone or activate a laser at some point, or being knocked down, it would have by then so much HP, no ammount of firepower the wave could bring would be enough to take it down for its duration. But yeah, we definately proven that you actually have to know what the actuall fuck you are doing when playing Frost.woah are you just being too offensive right now? frost is just usually my low-mid defense mission,limbo for higher tiers you dont have to be so rude well thats how i feel i am just saying whats my opinion and i know how frost works, so do you mind please if you will be speaking on other peoples opinion please do try to think its the OPINION not my "stone to throw"  and i beg your pardon if my grammar is wrong i am just here to clarify I USE FROST in low to mid tier defense and limbo to higher tiers of defense you dont have to be so pissed on someones opinion if you are give them a enlightenment about something than a somehow offensive response(if they feel it is) thank you for taking time to read and if not why did you?
      Yeah...not gonna be bothered to clear that mess up. Learn how to post properly, if you dont mind.

      thank you for your corrections and what do you mean to post properly?, anyway we are going out of the topic with our petty disputes if i have my mistake i am sorry i am human lets get back to the topic and help other people to know more shall we?,and i do hope i explain my side have a good day,good sir 

        Loading editor
    • Areonlight35 wrote:
      Kasseopea wrote:
      Areonlight35 wrote:
      Kasseopea wrote:

      Areonlight35 wrote: 173.167.157.117 wrote: Kasseopea wrote: RIP Frost? Never heard more bullshit in one post. It's still the strongest Frame as long as the team is disciplined and knows what it is doing. Bombards - as already explained - do not reach far enough into the globe with their AoE to kill players as long as you are skilled properly. Nullifiers are easily taken out with either melee or a fast firing weapon. Frost requires knowledge and skill, while Limbo is a Troll-Frame. Frost's globe is also invincible if you choose the right mods, but it was all explained already.Bombards' Blast damage and AoE do actually harm the pod, while the nullifiers have snipers that one-hit kill most frames after 30 waves. Nullifiers aren't so bad since a Valkyr can take them out, but Bombards do make Frost an outdated piece to an outstanding strategy. Limbo does the job better, and while I loved Frost for what he offered, I would still use Limbo over him. You also can't trust people to be disciplined and know what the f*ck they're supposed to do - sometimes you get the best team or people that just started the game. Mastery Rank is nothing anymore either - they had the time and resources to sink in to getting a higher mastery rank, that's all the fancy number means. Limbo was used primarily as a trolling tool because that Archwing Update was so broken most players loved being able to Rift Walk around Stalker, Banishing Pods and people, and overall abusing the broken aspects of the new frame. Not many Limbo players left around two updates later. Those playing him now play him according to the restrictions and 'nerfs' imposed by DE to actually make him a less 'troll' frame. Frost's Globe goes down in two three hits after a time as well. No such thing as invincible with something that possesses HP, as opposed to something that has duration. (Iron Skin vs Hysteria kind of comparison.) In terms of what they each stand on individually, I would probably say Frost is my go-to for a simple defense mission in invasions or alerts - Limbo is made of paper and would not do good against Infested or Corpus if he runs out of energy. (Because let's face it - Frost was made with a supporting tank role in mind, while Limbo had a cool idea but poor execution.) Limbo has no direction, hence his variety of roles he can fill in any defense. Limbo is a caster and Frost a tank so I can't really say it's fair to compare them but the roles that Limbo can fill are vastly greater than Frost and that is so much more useful in any defense or mission. That is what makes Limbo the better choice.frost or limbo is just one of my best defense masters back when the sg is not yet nerfed IT is invincible but now it is down on its knee but i still love frost as my immobile tank while limbo as my untouchable defense setter i dont need to explain for me if they are in one team the defense is safe up to any waves as long their weapon and they know when to set their skills on

      • Sigh* Noobs gonna noob i guess. Ok, fine, let's explain it to those of you who apparently have no idea how the new Globe works. It is invincible for 4 Seconds after being cast. During that time it absorbs all the damage it would normally take and turns it into HP. The stronger the enemies, the more HP it has, the longer it can hold. If you recast the Globe inside an exisiting one, it replaces it and absorbs the remaining HP, while also being invincible for 4 seconds and absorbing all incoming damage into its HP. A proper Frost goes for max range & max efficiency and just spams the globe every 4-5 seconds. In defense im just standing on the pod and using my Opticor to dispatch VIP. Every 2 shots or 1 shot and 1 reload i recast the bubble and it does not go down. You know why? Because it is literally being invincible the whole time. Even if it had 1 HP on it's own without the absorbtion. And even if i would have to go down to res someone or activate a laser at some point, or being knocked down, it would have by then so much HP, no ammount of firepower the wave could bring would be enough to take it down for its duration. But yeah, we definately proven that you actually have to know what the actuall fuck you are doing when playing Frost.woah are you just being too offensive right now? frost is just usually my low-mid defense mission,limbo for higher tiers you dont have to be so rude well thats how i feel i am just saying whats my opinion and i know how frost works, so do you mind please if you will be speaking on other peoples opinion please do try to think its the OPINION not my "stone to throw"  and i beg your pardon if my grammar is wrong i am just here to clarify I USE FROST in low to mid tier defense and limbo to higher tiers of defense you dont have to be so pissed on someones opinion if you are give them a enlightenment about something than a somehow offensive response(if they feel it is) thank you for taking time to read and if not why did you?
      Yeah...not gonna be bothered to clear that mess up. Learn how to post properly, if you dont mind.
      thank you for your corrections and what do you mean to post properly?, anyway we are going out of the topic with our petty disputes if i have my mistake i am sorry i am human lets get back to the topic and help other people to know more shall we?,and i do hope i explain my side have a good day,good sir 


      By that i mean that it was one massive wall of text and i couldnt see where my text stopped and your started.

      To me Frost is the only omnivalent defensive Frame. Sure, Vauban & Hydroid may be better in infested missions or interceptions and Limbo might cheap his way through higher waves of void, but imho there is atm no replacement for Frost.

        Loading editor
    • Kasseopea wrote:
      Areonlight35 wrote:
      Kasseopea wrote:
      Areonlight35 wrote:
      Kasseopea wrote:

      Areonlight35 wrote: 173.167.157.117 wrote: Kasseopea wrote: RIP Frost? Never heard more bullshit in one post. It's still the strongest Frame as long as the team is disciplined and knows what it is doing. Bombards - as already explained - do not reach far enough into the globe with their AoE to kill players as long as you are skilled properly. Nullifiers are easily taken out with either melee or a fast firing weapon. Frost requires knowledge and skill, while Limbo is a Troll-Frame. Frost's globe is also invincible if you choose the right mods, but it was all explained already.Bombards' Blast damage and AoE do actually harm the pod, while the nullifiers have snipers that one-hit kill most frames after 30 waves. Nullifiers aren't so bad since a Valkyr can take them out, but Bombards do make Frost an outdated piece to an outstanding strategy. Limbo does the job better, and while I loved Frost for what he offered, I would still use Limbo over him. You also can't trust people to be disciplined and know what the f*ck they're supposed to do - sometimes you get the best team or people that just started the game. Mastery Rank is nothing anymore either - they had the time and resources to sink in to getting a higher mastery rank, that's all the fancy number means. Limbo was used primarily as a trolling tool because that Archwing Update was so broken most players loved being able to Rift Walk around Stalker, Banishing Pods and people, and overall abusing the broken aspects of the new frame. Not many Limbo players left around two updates later. Those playing him now play him according to the restrictions and 'nerfs' imposed by DE to actually make him a less 'troll' frame. Frost's Globe goes down in two three hits after a time as well. No such thing as invincible with something that possesses HP, as opposed to something that has duration. (Iron Skin vs Hysteria kind of comparison.) In terms of what they each stand on individually, I would probably say Frost is my go-to for a simple defense mission in invasions or alerts - Limbo is made of paper and would not do good against Infested or Corpus if he runs out of energy. (Because let's face it - Frost was made with a supporting tank role in mind, while Limbo had a cool idea but poor execution.) Limbo has no direction, hence his variety of roles he can fill in any defense. Limbo is a caster and Frost a tank so I can't really say it's fair to compare them but the roles that Limbo can fill are vastly greater than Frost and that is so much more useful in any defense or mission. That is what makes Limbo the better choice.frost or limbo is just one of my best defense masters back when the sg is not yet nerfed IT is invincible but now it is down on its knee but i still love frost as my immobile tank while limbo as my untouchable defense setter i dont need to explain for me if they are in one team the defense is safe up to any waves as long their weapon and they know when to set their skills on

      • Sigh* Noobs gonna noob i guess. Ok, fine, let's explain it to those of you who apparently have no idea how the new Globe works. It is invincible for 4 Seconds after being cast. During that time it absorbs all the damage it would normally take and turns it into HP. The stronger the enemies, the more HP it has, the longer it can hold. If you recast the Globe inside an exisiting one, it replaces it and absorbs the remaining HP, while also being invincible for 4 seconds and absorbing all incoming damage into its HP. A proper Frost goes for max range & max efficiency and just spams the globe every 4-5 seconds. In defense im just standing on the pod and using my Opticor to dispatch VIP. Every 2 shots or 1 shot and 1 reload i recast the bubble and it does not go down. You know why? Because it is literally being invincible the whole time. Even if it had 1 HP on it's own without the absorbtion. And even if i would have to go down to res someone or activate a laser at some point, or being knocked down, it would have by then so much HP, no ammount of firepower the wave could bring would be enough to take it down for its duration. But yeah, we definately proven that you actually have to know what the actuall fuck you are doing when playing Frost.woah are you just being too offensive right now? frost is just usually my low-mid defense mission,limbo for higher tiers you dont have to be so rude well thats how i feel i am just saying whats my opinion and i know how frost works, so do you mind please if you will be speaking on other peoples opinion please do try to think its the OPINION not my "stone to throw"  and i beg your pardon if my grammar is wrong i am just here to clarify I USE FROST in low to mid tier defense and limbo to higher tiers of defense you dont have to be so pissed on someones opinion if you are give them a enlightenment about something than a somehow offensive response(if they feel it is) thank you for taking time to read and if not why did you?
      Yeah...not gonna be bothered to clear that mess up. Learn how to post properly, if you dont mind.
      thank you for your corrections and what do you mean to post properly?, anyway we are going out of the topic with our petty disputes if i have my mistake i am sorry i am human lets get back to the topic and help other people to know more shall we?,and i do hope i explain my side have a good day,good sir 

      By that i mean that it was one massive wall of text and i couldnt see where my text stopped and your started.

      To me Frost is the only omnivalent defensive Frame. Sure, Vauban & Hydroid may be better in infested missions or interceptions and Limbo might cheap his way through higher waves of void, but imho there is atm no replacement for Frost.

      yeah anyway lets stop this its really hard to read with full of text now lol 

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    • Not sure who I should have quote, since my question(s?) don't really apply to anyone specific. I recall one or two mentioned with Frost, how some ways to work it out on those higher T4 Defense waves, is to use his 4 for at least some stagger in between each Globe spawn. As far as going to wave 80 and so on, at least with my personal experience, it just didn't seem enough, since after the initial 4 seconds, it's pretty much gone immediately (80-100 waves specifically), and having our Frost constantly spawn it again, and only having a very little open window to do something (i.e. taking down a nullifier, using ult for minor crown control, etc), basically making him a standstill, and it just doesn't seem to work out as well. All it takes is that one nullifier or bombard's missle coming towards us, (example, in between that time frame of the globe being destroyed and being re-spawned) to fail the run. In nullifier's case, usually a good melee is optimal, but when we hit at least 80-90, its really not worth the risk of running out there to take out those nullifiers (especially then there's usually 4+ coming towards us). And basically only having 3 players doing the damage while our Frost is stationary; well I wouldn't say it cripples us, but it definitely makes it a bit tougher to keep the damage up. So my question is, should we try possibly Limbo as an alternative? Or atleast a complimentary with Frost to make it at least less room for error for our Frost? The issue with the latter, is what could I exactly replace for a Limbo? If we do run with Nova for an example, I don't necessarily want to give her up because M prime is very helpful for my runs.

      Atleast for the most part, I have had some very nice success with Limbo before, but I never personally tried the 100+ Defense runs, so I really have no idea how it would exactly work out, and ultimately not wasting our time if his skills have a drop off like Frost's Globe.

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    • Past wave 40 on defense, you will be fighting lvl 80+ enemies, with a high number of them being Eximus class. Using a frost, you can still use guns to fire outside the range of your dome. Using a Limbo, you can only use powers outside the range. Inside range of the done, with Frost, enemies are slowed signifigantly, Limbo enemies are not, but take increased damage.

      The most simple solution? Why the heck are you bothering to go past wave 40 anyway.

      Limbo is viable with specific group builds that have strong offensive frame powers (Mesa, Radial spam Excal, Ash), but the Limbo themself has nearly no offensive damage powers to use to assist, so they'll be sitting there twiddling thumbs, or roasting energy. Frost can work with ANY frame as a party member, with some combinations more powerful then others, such as Disarm Loki or Nyx to make enemies kill eachother while you stay safe, or the ever-popular Mesa+Greedy Mag combo that seems to dominate almost every situation these days

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    • for those who want to shoot inside cataclysm try volts electric shield to spam WHERE the enemies always appear than spamming the shield everywhere inside the globe,and there you go you can shoot outside i dont know if it still works but last year i played with a volt i was asking why him ,later on i found out what he meant about the cataclyst tactic its t4 defense that time too we got up to 45 waves 

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    • HalfDarkShadow wrote:
      Not sure who I should have quote, since my question(s?) don't really apply to anyone specific.

      I recall one or two mentioned with Frost, how some ways to work it out on those higher T4 Defense waves, is to use his 4 for at least some stagger in between each Globe spawn. As far as going to wave 80 and so on, at least with my personal experience, it just didn't seem enough, since after the initial 4 seconds, it's pretty much gone immediately (80-100 waves specifically), and having our Frost constantly spawn it again, and only having a very little open window to do something (i.e. taking down a nullifier, using ult for minor crown control, etc), basically making him a standstill, and it just doesn't seem to work out as well. All it takes is that one nullifier or bombard's missle coming towards us, (example, in between that time frame of the globe being destroyed and being re-spawned) to fail the run. In nullifier's case, usually a good melee is optimal, but when we hit at least 80-90, its really not worth the risk of running out there to take out those nullifiers (especially then there's usually 4+ coming towards us). And basically only having 3 players doing the damage while our Frost is stationary; well I wouldn't say it cripples us, but it definitely makes it a bit tougher to keep the damage up. So my question is, should we try possibly Limbo as an alternative? Or atleast a complimentary with Frost to make it at least less room for error for our Frost? The issue with the latter, is what could I exactly replace for a Limbo? If we do run with Nova for an example, I don't necessarily want to give her up because M prime is very helpful for my runs.

      Atleast for the most part, I have had some very nice success with Limbo before, but I never personally tried the 100+ Defense runs, so I really have no idea how it would exactly work out, and ultimately not wasting our time if his skills have a drop off like Frost's Globe.


      Read the stuff people wrote here before posting. You go for max range & max efficiency. Since the Globe is invincible the first 4 seconds and absorbs the damage received, you simply recast it after 4-5 seconds each time. The old one is gone and is absorbed by the new one. The new Globe also has 4 secs invulnarability as well as all the HP through absorbed damage the other had and so on.

      Sure, it's a bit of a hassle, but you get an impenetrable dome that is always the same size, freezes 50% of the enemies entering solid and does not block sight or bullets whatsoever if you make the energy dark enough. With max efficiency it holds up for 11 secs and costs 12,5 energy. The Globe does also doesn't block the lasers, even if they are inside of it.

      I prefer to stay on the cryopod and snipe VIPs away with my Opticor, while casually recasting the globe every 2 shots.

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    • Kasseopea wrote:


      Read the stuff people wrote here before posting. You go for max range & max efficiency. Since the Globe is invincible the first 4 seconds and absorbs the damage received, you simply recast it after 4-5 seconds each time. The old one is gone and is absorbed by the new one. The new Globe also has 4 secs invulnarability as well as all the HP through absorbed damage the other had and so on.

      Sure, it's a bit of a hassle, but you get an impenetrable dome that is always the same size, freezes 50% of the enemies entering solid and does not block sight or bullets whatsoever if you make the energy dark enough. With max efficiency it holds up for 11 secs and costs 12,5 energy. The Globe does also doesn't block the lasers, even if they are inside of it.

      I prefer to stay on the cryopod and snipe VIPs away with my Opticor, while casually recasting the globe every 2 shots.

      Err...I did? Hence my first sentence being that I didn't know who to specifically quote, since it doesn't exactly apply to anyone in particular; so I'm not sure what your post has to with my question.

      And I'm not sure if I didn't word it right, or that you're misunderstanding, but that's exactly the problem I'm having. Before I continue what I'm having an issue with, I pretty much have my/party member's Frost specifially setup that way in their mod builds. That's not the issue though.

      I'll try to reword and repeat what I said in my last post, but the issue is that constant recasting every 4-6 seconds, despite how much damage it absorbs during that invincibility time. You even highlighted that as well with the "recasting the glove every 2 shots". Once we hit about 80ish and on, Frost is just there at a stand still with minimal help in the damage department. By then its heavily needed to use CC abilities to survive, while diminishing their health, until that wave ends. And unfotunately Frost is crippled in those two catagories at that point, minus the 4 seconds of protection.

      Don't get me wrong, that works just fine for waves 1-20 for quick rotation runs as well as about 1-50, and since that's all he is really there for beyond the minor slow buff in the globe as well, but going back to my orginal question was is there any alternative suggestions anyone would know or have in regards to Limbo, specifically his 4th ability? Would he work better in conjunction with Frost? If so or not, what frame would be compromised? How should Limbo's 4th ability be setup since he can go quite a few ways with min/maxing his range.


      I'll also include my original question up there, since based on your response, you ignored it: So my question is, should we try possibly Limbo as an alternative? Or atleast a complimentary with Frost to make it at least less room for error for our Frost? The issue with the latter, is what could I exactly replace for a Limbo? If we do run with Nova for an example, I don't necessarily want to give her up because M prime is very helpful for my runs.

      So feel free if you (or anyone) can help me out. If not, no worries.

      I apologize if any of this post comes out rude, but you should take your own advice as well, and please read and understand the question before posting.

      Thanks!

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    • Write guides with screenshots and calculations and statistics, people. That would be a good outcome of this debate.

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    • Nighteyes5 wrote:
      Past wave 40 on defense, you will be fighting lvl 80+ enemies, with a high number of them being Eximus class. Using a frost, you can still use guns to fire outside the range of your dome. Using a Limbo, you can only use powers outside the range. Inside range of the done, with Frost, enemies are slowed signifigantly, Limbo enemies are not, but take increased damage.

      The most simple solution? Why the heck are you bothering to go past wave 40 anyway.

      Limbo is viable with specific group builds that have strong offensive frame powers (Mesa, Radial spam Excal, Ash), but the Limbo themself has nearly no offensive damage powers to use to assist, so they'll be sitting there twiddling thumbs, or roasting energy. Frost can work with ANY frame as a party member, with some combinations more powerful then others, such as Disarm Loki or Nyx to make enemies kill eachother while you stay safe, or the ever-popular Mesa+Greedy Mag combo that seems to dominate almost every situation these days

      I apologize, I didn't oringinally see this!

      But in regards to Limbo's 4th ability, would having a small bubble for the pod help at all in regards to Frost's bubble being destroyed? So there's less time in between each globe cast for the pod to be damaged? Speculating for example, a Disarming Loki, Min-Chaos Nyx, etc is in the setup, since us being hurt is the least of our concerns. It's more on the pod I worry, since what the enemies are aiming for, figuratively and literally. Since I forma'd my Limbo a few times to properly mod him, we're planning to go do some long runs in the next week or so, when we all have time.

      Oh and I apologize in regards to why would I/my team go beyond 40? Honestly, we just enjoy seeing how far we can go and push further and further in. Sure there's really no incentive to go really even beyond 20, but it's just something we like to do. For us at least, it's fun setting up what frame is going in and how its going to be modded.

      But beyond a few clanmates, there's really no where else we can go to get some suggestions, since most players don't want to go that far, which is completely fine. But for people who do, it'd be great to get some feedback their builds (of course with some statitics and actually going to that far into Defense to confirm what they have setup is valid) and going back to my original question as well, any alternatives for Frost beyond being at that point, just a stationary-glove spawner/to atleast contribute more with damage then that very small time frame to possibly shoot 1-4 shots with Paris Prime (just as a random example).

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    • Or we all could just use Limbo and Frost together for 2 globes.

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    • Depends on play style really. Personally I would take Limbo over Frost, especially considering Limbos new augment for cataclysm, now he can keep the rift up for entire waves without having to recast. Brining a volt allows you to shoot outside, brining a Loki can force the enemies to come to you, and if everyone coordinates it also makes the lasers viable on void defense

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    • SuzukiSwift wrote:
      Depends on play style really. Personally I would take Limbo over Frost, especially considering Limbos new augment for cataclysm, now he can keep the rift up for entire waves without having to recast. Brining a volt allows you to shoot outside, brining a Loki can force the enemies to come to you, and if everyone coordinates it also makes the lasers viable on void defense


      Yeah, but thats the reason why Limbo is worse. He only works because of a buggy exploit of Volt. And even then, you still need other, specific frames to tag along.

      On the other hand Frost doesn't give two fucks about who is with him, as long as it isnt a Limbo.

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    • I love how everyone is doing this:

      1) "Limbo doesn't allow you to fire weapons, he sucks."

      2) "You can only clear T4D with powers."

      And people don't seem to see any conflict in those two statements at all.  Cognative Dissodence, much?  Let me make this easy for you:

      Limbo blocking weapons fire is irrelevant because any mission where Limbo is going to be better (i.e. any mission where Frost's globe will be collapsed every 6th second) is also a mission where powers, and ONLY powers are gonna kill fast eough anyway.

      So yeah, gripe about Peacemaker all you want.  You can take 10+ minutes clearing each wave in T4D without it, or 2 minutes per wave with it.  If you really, really just HAVE to use your guns for it, ok, bring Frost and enjoy your defeat.

      But really, Limbo+Mesa (and preferably + Nova and Nekros) is always going to be better than anything else.  It's silly, stupid, and horrible balancing on DE's part that this is true, but it is STILL TRUE.  Your Boltor Prime is never going to keep up with Peacemaker, it just isn't.  It sucks for you since you wasted 6 forma on such a great *gough*n00b*cough* weapon, but get used to the fact that Limbo+Mesa is just better than you.  Because it is.

      At least until DE brings down the nerfhammer on one of them.  And when they do, they'll nerf Limbo instead of Mesa because he's totally the problem there *cough*Excalinerf*cough*, right?

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    • 98.89.19.53 wrote:
      I love how everyone is doing this:

      1) "Limbo doesn't allow you to fire weapons, he sucks."

      2) "You can only clear T4D with powers."

      And people don't seem to see any conflict in those two statements at all.  Cognative Dissodence, much?  Let me make this easy for you:

      Limbo blocking weapons fire is irrelevant because any mission where Limbo is going to be better (i.e. any mission where Frost's globe will be collapsed every 6th second) is also a mission where powers, and ONLY powers are gonna kill fast eough anyway.

      So yeah, gripe about Peacemaker all you want.  You can take 10+ minutes clearing each wave in T4D without it, or 2 minutes per wave with it.  If you really, really just HAVE to use your guns for it, ok, bring Frost and enjoy your defeat.

      But really, Limbo+Mesa (and preferably + Nova and Nekros) is always going to be better than anything else.  It's silly, stupid, and horrible balancing on DE's part that this is true, but it is STILL TRUE.  Your Boltor Prime is never going to keep up with Peacemaker, it just isn't.  It sucks for you since you wasted 6 forma on such a great *gough*n00b*cough* weapon, but get used to the fact that Limbo+Mesa is just better than you.  Because it is.

      At least until DE brings down the nerfhammer on one of them.  And when they do, they'll nerf Limbo instead of Mesa because he's totally the problem there *cough*Excalinerf*cough*, right?

      Powers killing fast enough? Please go away little troll.

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    • 88.159.116.156 wrote:
      frost's globe has the advantage that you can use it as cover and shoot wth your normal weapons.

      Limbo's cataclysm is pretty good, but compltely disables normal weapons from affecting the outside: only powers go through it.


      If you have 2-3 mesas, sure, bring limbo. that's the best way to go.

      However, if you don't have mesas, just take a frost + loki (volt can also help, because his shield is indestructible. you can place it strategically to cover against most gunfire, whilst the globe stops the random shots)

      if you take volt with the limbo then reg weps will work through volt shield

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    • There are very few powers that get more potent with higher levels. Most of them will not even insta-kill past enemies ov lvl 15-20. The powers that DO continue to scale are Chaos, Absorb, Shield Polarize, and irradiating disarm, as well as a few others, like snowglobe. This is because they count the enemy stats as part of their power. Shield polarize increases effectivness as enemy shield sizes go up, and as enemies get into crowds. Chaos and mind controlling effects cause enemies to kill eachother, which is great, because enemies get increasingly more powerful damage. Powers have the same drawbacks as guns, however higher level content versus corpus or corrupted, you WILL face neutralizers, which you WILL need to shoot with standard weaponry, or slide recklessly into the middle of in an attempt to melee them, at which point the other 10 friends of theirs that are inside just shoot you in the face and walk over you to go kill the rest of your squad.

      Limbo max size is a nice theory, but once enemies are inside, they can shoot you the same as you can shoot them, or shoot whatever you are defending. There are numerous pre-planned frame combos that can circumvent Limbo's shortcomming, like Mesa/mag/nekros, or specificly stacking volt shields, but mesa/mag/nekros works with nearly anything as a super-combo. Frost however works with anything. Any frame; gun damage frames, powers frames, CCing frames, stealth, even for melee frames since enemies inside will be going slow motion and basicly can't fight back or turn to face you. Frost always works.

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    • This is is one long ass discussion.

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    • and yet,there is no definite answer.

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    • I can't shoot my Tonkor into both of them. So it don't matter to me.

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    • Nighteyes5 wrote: There are very few powers that get more potent with higher levels. Most of them will not even insta-kill past enemies ov lvl 15-20. The powers that DO continue to scale are Chaos, Absorb, Shield Polarize, and irradiating disarm, as well as a few others, like snowglobe. This is because they count the enemy stats as part of their power. Shield polarize increases effectivness as enemy shield sizes go up, and as enemies get into crowds. Chaos and mind controlling effects cause enemies to kill eachother, which is great, because enemies get increasingly more powerful damage. Powers have the same drawbacks as guns, however higher level content versus corpus or corrupted, you WILL face neutralizers, which you WILL need to shoot with standard weaponry, or slide recklessly into the middle of in an attempt to melee them, at which point the other 10 friends of theirs that are inside just shoot you in the face and walk over you to go kill the rest of your squad.

      Limbo max size is a nice theory, but once enemies are inside, they can shoot you the same as you can shoot them, or shoot whatever you are defending. There are numerous pre-planned frame combos that can circumvent Limbo's shortcomming, like Mesa/mag/nekros, or specificly stacking volt shields, but mesa/mag/nekros works with nearly anything as a super-combo. Frost however works with anything. Any frame; gun damage frames, powers frames, CCing frames, stealth, even for melee frames since enemies inside will be going slow motion and basicly can't fight back or turn to face you. Frost always works.

      Another few examples are Shadows of the Dead, Well of Life, Energy Vampire, Bastille, Vortex and Radial Blind

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    • God, I can't believe I just read this entire thread. Alright. First off I'm gonna say that Frost p was my 2nd Frame at Mr 3 so I know all about him. I just recently got Limbo but since I read this thread among other things I think I know enough. And I'll try be as fair as I can. During the event where you could only use Heavy Blade melee I brought my Frost for protection and so the enemies would hack slower, since it was an interception. The enemies were lvl 100+. No jokes. Without any particular mods and includinf Bombards and Eximi my Globe never broke. And I didn't do the invulnerbility buid. So I'm not sure if you guys did ANY playtesting WHATSOEVER or you guys are just lying. Except you Kasseopa. And if you guys were smart you would do what I tell EVERY frost I come across to LINK the GLOBES. From the first wave you never allow them to finish before you cast another. They will grow stronger overtime. And no "Stationary Frost" and all that bullshit.

      However my friends argued that we needed a LImbo during the event. Leme tell you that Limbo couldnt stay on his feet for 2 seconds. Yeah the Cataclysm helped kill the enemies and give us energy but what else? It didn't help with anything. In fact you cant cast it that much OR kill the enemies since it doesnt scale, therefore you'd need either: minimum range to protect yourself or maximum range, so you can die continuously.

      I don't know 'bout you guys but everytime I Banish someone they start complaining. In fact , most people will do ANYTHING to get OUT of the rift. It's blurry and loud and annoying. No pickups so no extra energy. If anything gets in its bye bye Cryopod. But Frost slows them or even straight up freezes em. Frost is also partly offensesive and with the right mods you can slow enemies up coming approach. 

      And a little off topic but Chroma's Effigy can do a bunch of Sechura Pluto waves without you having to fire a shot, with added credits.

      ANYWAY. As I was saying. You can't shoot out of Cataclysm. Who uses Volt these anyaway? If you find someone you can continuously cast electric shields in harmony of were all the players are shooting who ISNT a noob then GG. Besides, the cataclysm looses range overtime and even more with added duration and you can't recast cause the Cryopod will be down and out. So... I have NO idea HOW you manage to come up with these conclusions. Also, if you put range then enemies will be inside it. If not, the Cryopod will not be covered, leaving room for ranged kills. If you coould banish the Cryopod then that'll be just op, but you cant so...

      Frost frosty frost frost WINS!!!!!!!!!

      If you have any queries please do not hesitate to reply.

      P.S. Trinity has never gotten Nerfed before. Why you saying she has?

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    • Have any of you even read the Rift Plane artice? Most of your Limbo theories are trumped there.

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    • Elementress X wrote:

      [...]

      No pickups so no extra energy.

      [...]

      P.S. Trinity has never gotten Nerfed before. Why you saying she has?

      You restore 2 energy per second while you are in the rift (this adds up with Energy Siphon up to 4.4 energy/sec with 4 auras) : almost infinite casting if you have economy build. And Trinity can still give you energy while you are in the rift. Yet Limbo is strictly reserved for organized teams, not for random pickups.

      Trinity was nerfed about a year ago. Before that, her 4 was giving INVULNERABILITY to all teammates. Now it only gives damage reduction. Fairly high damage reduction can be achieved, but it is far from total invincibility.

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    • Cataclysm is godlike if your team knows what they are doing. Unfortunately, there are so many clueless players that have no idea what to do when they have Limbo in their team.

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    • Elementress X wrote:
      God, I can't believe I just read this entire thread. Alright. First off I'm gonna say that Frost p was my 2nd Frame at Mr 3 so I know all about him. I just recently got Limbo but since I read this thread among other things I think I know enough. And I'll try be as fair as I can. During the event where you could only use Heavy Blade melee I brought my Frost for protection and so the enemies would hack slower, since it was an interception. The enemies were lvl 100+. No jokes. Without any particular mods and includinf Bombards and Eximi my Globe never broke. And I didn't do the invulnerbility buid. So I'm not sure if you guys did ANY playtesting WHATSOEVER or you guys are just lying. Except you Kasseopa. And if you guys were smart you would do what I tell EVERY frost I come across to LINK the GLOBES. From the first wave you never allow them to finish before you cast another. They will grow stronger overtime. And no "Stationary Frost" and all that bullshit.

      However my friends argued that we needed a LImbo during the event. Leme tell you that Limbo couldnt stay on his feet for 2 seconds. Yeah the Cataclysm helped kill the enemies and give us energy but what else? It didn't help with anything. In fact you cant cast it that much OR kill the enemies since it doesnt scale, therefore you'd need either: minimum range to protect yourself or maximum range, so you can die continuously.

      I don't know 'bout you guys but everytime I Banish someone they start complaining. In fact , most people will do ANYTHING to get OUT of the rift. It's blurry and loud and annoying. No pickups so no extra energy. If anything gets in its bye bye Cryopod. But Frost slows them or even straight up freezes em. Frost is also partly offensesive and with the right mods you can slow enemies up coming approach. 


      Ok, so I'm going to do this one piece at a time, and focus on more on the topic of Frost here.

      Just going to start off before getting to the meat of it, Frost was my first frame I played (bought) and stuck with them until MR 12, and learned everything with his changes inside out; even after trying out other frames. Back then when I first started out, when I didn't know much about the game, I didn't like Loki I chose after playing for a few hours, and since I had the spare cash and thought the game seemed nice enough for me to support them, I did just that. Unfortunately I didn't understand how accessible he was to get for free, but I digress. Point being, does that make me more knowledgable or have anymore authority then anyone else here? No it does not. So I'd suggest be careful bringing that kind of stuff up.

      On a side note as well, you're attitude doesn't really help either, saying things such as: "And I didn't do the invulnerbility buid. So I'm not sure if you guys did ANY playtesting WHATSOEVER or you guys are just lying." and "And no "Stationary Frost" and all that bullshit.", even if it wasn't your intention, it still comes off pretty arrogant. So please don't discredit any of us here.


      Now to main points. First I'm going to have to stop you a few points regarding that event, since you are not telling us the whole story. When you were doing those interceptions, did you have disarm loki's? Puddle hydroids? etc? If so then honestly of course the chances of having globe up the whole time would be possible. Hell that's what happened with my team. Frost, two loki's, and hydroid. Beyond the occassional one or so enemies who weren't dissarmed, the globe was  untouched. So there is some clarification needed on that end.

      Second part about that event; this was a grineer-faction interception mission. Did it have nullifiers, laser moas, those flying drones, and everything in between? Could you go beyond the certain amount of waves required to complete the mission, without forcing to extract? No, it did not. At worse one could argue that is one small isolated incidident, that does not reflect my initial questions regardin Tier 4, Void Defense.

      Have you ever went beyond 80-100 waves before? If you haven't, bascially there is significantly more enemies then that event could ever hold, with more nullifiers to worry about then you could imagine. As I have mentioned up there before, I do these kind of runs with friends from time to time, so please do not discredit/minimalize our disscussions with me or anyone like that.

      And I'm not going to get into why a Frost would essentially be a standstill because (for example), these nullifiers; since chaos, disarm, molecular prime are almost crippled with the overlaying nufflier shields, making it difficult to leave the globe to run in, kill those specific targets, without being one to two shots dead. If so, go re-read what I've been talking about up there, so I don't have to repeat myself a third time.

      That is the difference and you need to understand that. Some of have done handfuls of playtesting and such, even if its just for our own gradification, so we do have a large enough sample to figure out what works and what doesnt, what needs to be tried out, and what has been tried out, and what is written of paper sortofspeak, is translated well and accurate to actual gameplay. Not just 2 or 3 runs in a melee-only interception mission with only one faction. Sure it can help in some specifical areas, but it does not come to any conclusion whatsoever the underlining problems with the extremely high T4 Defense missions because of the scaling being just straight up enemy level increase, while (numbers-only speaking) we are at max at a hard cap 30.


      Other then that, I can't really say much about your statements about Limbo(to a lesser extent, Volt), since I play with a clan and friends that are highly reliable and are well aware of his skills, ultimately not "complaining" as you put it, since the teams we set up are very specfic, and for the most part, everyone going in knows exactly what the other person is bringing from frame, to essential mods, to weapons, and so on.  No one has ever complained, in my experience of course, about these things since we know exactly what we are getting into. If you are referring to PUB parties, then I'd say just re-read everything I said, since I'm focusing on set players and teams, and not random people. There is only so much a random team can do to, assuming they want to do beyond 20 waves for fun.


      Anyway I'm not expecting you, or anyone really to respond to anything I have been saying in this entire thread, so there's no obligation too. I'll still be following this particular thread for another few weeks, but after I will be unfollowing it, so I will not be notified, since beyond one or two responses, no one else has really giving me enough information or suggestions on team setups with Limbo in as one example.

      We can talk about all day about his shortcomings and flaws, but that's not what I'm here for. I'd figure that'll I'll just have to do some trial-and-error setups and do the number crunching myself/my friends/clan. But it was still worth a shot, to atleast hope to find someone to even possibly message beyond this, and start getting something together, share our findings and anything statitical/number-wise if needed; because as I have mentioned, not I or anyone I know has the time to go in every weekend to try out different frames to see what could be compromised and synergize well with Limbo (beyond some common setups, i.e. Limbo+Mesa). As well as having to use that same setup more then once for a decent sample size/idea how it plays out (since obviously, not one one will justify anything, since any variable/a bad run can happen), just to end up barely hitting our minimul wavecount in that particular run, or worse failing the run and wasting hours to not atleast getting some rewards. Hence, I just wanted to see if there was anyone on here with their own information or suggestions (of course with a large enough sample size experience or knows another post somewhere in the net regarding this topic), to see what would be more worth while trying.

      But going back again to previous posts, there are not many players in general that want to even go that far in Defense runs, since there's really no tangable(?) reason or reward to go that far, beyond what's in the rotations. The few people that do though with me, solely just do it for the fun factor alone, since myself personally love doing these kind of things.


      But still, hope that clears up everything, and hopefully understandable.

      I also don't recall what was talked about Trinity, but they might have been reffering to her Blessing ability balace(nerf?), so we can't have the good ol' invincibility builds. But that's just a guess one what they might have been referring to~

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    • ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      Apologies, that post/response was from me, for some reason it didn't post it via. HalfDarkShadow.

      But anyway, no need to quote anything if anyone responses, just include my name in the reply and I'll see it! Thanks!


      EDIT: one more thing to add, I sincerely apologizeif anything, especially the begging, came off a bit strong or rude. That was not my intention. Just like how I perceived at one point or two that how you worded certain things came off a bit rude as well, I am assuming it was not your intention either. So don't worry on my end!

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    • Question: Can one shoot out of the cataclysm by having the barrel of the gun outside the bubble while the player is inside similar to the way one can shoot through a closed door?

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    • 38.88.244.252 wrote:
      Question: Can one shoot out of the cataclysm by having the barrel of the gun outside the bubble while the player is inside similar to the way one can shoot through a closed door?

      The Cataclysm bubble is slowly shrinking, by the time you'd manage to precisely stick only your barrel out of the bubble, you'd be outside of the bubble a couple seconds later.

      Also, you don't need to stick your gun out of the bubble to shoot outside, you can just ask for Volt to put a shield inside the bubble and shoot through the shield.

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    • 204.255.10.129 wrote:
      Elementress X wrote:
      God, I can't believe I just read this entire thread. Alright. First off I'm gonna say that Frost p was my 2nd Frame at Mr 3 so I know all about him. I just recently got Limbo but since I read this thread among other things I think I know enough. And I'll try be as fair as I can. During the event where you could only use Heavy Blade melee I brought my Frost for protection and so the enemies would hack slower, since it was an interception. The enemies were lvl 100+. No jokes. Without any particular mods and includinf Bombards and Eximi my Globe never broke. And I didn't do the invulnerbility buid. So I'm not sure if you guys did ANY playtesting WHATSOEVER or you guys are just lying. Except you Kasseopa. And if you guys were smart you would do what I tell EVERY frost I come across to LINK the GLOBES. From the first wave you never allow them to finish before you cast another. They will grow stronger overtime. And no "Stationary Frost" and all that bullshit.

      However my friends argued that we needed a LImbo during the event. Leme tell you that Limbo couldnt stay on his feet for 2 seconds. Yeah the Cataclysm helped kill the enemies and give us energy but what else? It didn't help with anything. In fact you cant cast it that much OR kill the enemies since it doesnt scale, therefore you'd need either: minimum range to protect yourself or maximum range, so you can die continuously.

      I don't know 'bout you guys but everytime I Banish someone they start complaining. In fact , most people will do ANYTHING to get OUT of the rift. It's blurry and loud and annoying. No pickups so no extra energy. If anything gets in its bye bye Cryopod. But Frost slows them or even straight up freezes em. Frost is also partly offensesive and with the right mods you can slow enemies up coming approach. 


      Ok, so I'm going to do this one piece at a time, and focus on more on the topic of Frost here.

      Just going to start off before getting to the meat of it, Frost was my first frame I played (bought) and stuck with them until MR 12, and learned everything with his changes inside out; even after trying out other frames. Back then when I first started out, when I didn't know much about the game, I didn't like Loki I chose after playing for a few hours, and since I had the spare cash and thought the game seemed nice enough for me to support them, I did just that. Unfortunately I didn't understand how accessible he was to get for free, but I digress. Point being, does that make me more knowledgable or have anymore authority then anyone else here? No it does not. So I'd suggest be careful bringing that kind of stuff up.

      On a side note as well, you're attitude doesn't really help either, saying things such as: "And I didn't do the invulnerbility buid. So I'm not sure if you guys did ANY playtesting WHATSOEVER or you guys are just lying." and "And no "Stationary Frost" and all that bullshit.", even if it wasn't your intention, it still comes off pretty arrogant. So please don't discredit any of us here.


      Now to main points. First I'm going to have to stop you a few points regarding that event, since you are not telling us the whole story. When you were doing those interceptions, did you have disarm loki's? Puddle hydroids? etc? If so then honestly of course the chances of having globe up the whole time would be possible. Hell that's what happened with my team. Frost, two loki's, and hydroid. Beyond the occassional one or so enemies who weren't dissarmed, the globe was  untouched. So there is some clarification needed on that end.

      Second part about that event; this was a grineer-faction interception mission. Did it have nullifiers, laser moas, those flying drones, and everything in between? Could you go beyond the certain amount of waves required to complete the mission, without forcing to extract? No, it did not. At worse one could argue that is one small isolated incidident, that does not reflect my initial questions regardin Tier 4, Void Defense.

      Have you ever went beyond 80-100 waves before? If you haven't, bascially there is significantly more enemies then that event could ever hold, with more nullifiers to worry about then you could imagine. As I have mentioned up there before, I do these kind of runs with friends from time to time, so please do not discredit/minimalize our disscussions with me or anyone like that.

      And I'm not going to get into why a Frost would essentially be a standstill because (for example), these nullifiers; since chaos, disarm, molecular prime are almost crippled with the overlaying nufflier shields, making it difficult to leave the globe to run in, kill those specific targets, without being one to two shots dead. If so, go re-read what I've been talking about up there, so I don't have to repeat myself a third time.

      That is the difference and you need to understand that. Some of have done handfuls of playtesting and such, even if its just for our own gradification, so we do have a large enough sample to figure out what works and what doesnt, what needs to be tried out, and what has been tried out, and what is written of paper sortofspeak, is translated well and accurate to actual gameplay. Not just 2 or 3 runs in a melee-only interception mission with only one faction. Sure it can help in some specifical areas, but it does not come to any conclusion whatsoever the underlining problems with the extremely high T4 Defense missions because of the scaling being just straight up enemy level increase, while (numbers-only speaking) we are at max at a hard cap 30.


      Other then that, I can't really say much about your statements about Limbo(to a lesser extent, Volt), since I play with a clan and friends that are highly reliable and are well aware of his skills, ultimately not "complaining" as you put it, since the teams we set up are very specfic, and for the most part, everyone going in knows exactly what the other person is bringing from frame, to essential mods, to weapons, and so on.  No one has ever complained, in my experience of course, about these things since we know exactly what we are getting into. If you are referring to PUB parties, then I'd say just re-read everything I said, since I'm focusing on set players and teams, and not random people. There is only so much a random team can do to, assuming they want to do beyond 20 waves for fun.


      Anyway I'm not expecting you, or anyone really to respond to anything I have been saying in this entire thread, so there's no obligation too. I'll still be following this particular thread for another few weeks, but after I will be unfollowing it, so I will not be notified, since beyond one or two responses, no one else has really giving me enough information or suggestions on team setups with Limbo in as one example.

      We can talk about all day about his shortcomings and flaws, but that's not what I'm here for. I'd figure that'll I'll just have to do some trial-and-error setups and do the number crunching myself/my friends/clan. But it was still worth a shot, to atleast hope to find someone to even possibly message beyond this, and start getting something together, share our findings and anything statitical/number-wise if needed; because as I have mentioned, not I or anyone I know has the time to go in every weekend to try out different frames to see what could be compromised and synergize well with Limbo (beyond some common setups, i.e. Limbo+Mesa). As well as having to use that same setup more then once for a decent sample size/idea how it plays out (since obviously, not one one will justify anything, since any variable/a bad run can happen), just to end up barely hitting our minimul wavecount in that particular run, or worse failing the run and wasting hours to not atleast getting some rewards. Hence, I just wanted to see if there was anyone on here with their own information or suggestions (of course with a large enough sample size experience or knows another post somewhere in the net regarding this topic), to see what would be more worth while trying.

      But going back again to previous posts, there are not many players in general that want to even go that far in Defense runs, since there's really no tangable(?) reason or reward to go that far, beyond what's in the rotations. The few people that do though with me, solely just do it for the fun factor alone, since myself personally love doing these kind of things.


      But still, hope that clears up everything, and hopefully understandable.

      I also don't recall what was talked about Trinity, but they might have been reffering to her Blessing ability balace(nerf?), so we can't have the good ol' invincibility builds. But that's just a guess one what they might have been referring to~

      Sorry. I didn't mean to be rude. But yeah I had no Loki or Hydroid. Or Nova. I think... And I did make it to the end. No invulerbility build or anything. And to be honest I've never had the time or mind capacity to go farther than 20-40 rounds on def. Btw I've stuck with Frost 'till rank 11 too! Well you've done rank 12 but still. Yeah this is a thread on Frost vs. Loki on def. I just heard alot of ppl saying that Frosts Globe is useless now and RIP Frost. He's a tank he can handle himself. And even if I do play with Clan they STILL hate me with Limbo. Idk what I'm doing wrong. But,I'll just shut up now.

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    • I've been running some test with Limbo vs. Infested (Solo) and it might just be me but it isn't going so good. First off he doesn't get damaged in Rift Walk but DE didn't think to go so far as to stop him from getting bumped around. The Entropy weapons don't do jack. The Infested stay all over him so the stronger they get the more likely he is to get killed the micro-second his Rift Walk wears off (and insde Cataclysm becomes theirs after a whle). I'm going to test Frost in the same way...

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    • Nighteyes5 wrote:
      Frost is useful to teamates at all times. Limbo trolls teamates 90% of the time by making them unable to attack, making enemies unable to be attacked, or spending their entire time spamming skills just to keep everything within the void since none of their own powers help. also, Limbo screws up any mission involving a data tablet, makes it so tenno cannot loot pickups mods or resources.

      IMO, Limbo was a cool idea, but DE severly fumbled the implementation. Frost wins every time


      You just brained. Just because someone trolled you, does not mean everyone will do that too.

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    • ladd the Cataclysm continuim augment max and it will help alot with the shrinking proplem

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    • For defence, Grab a limbo with cataclysm augment, speed nova, nova and maybe a vauban to suck up everything.

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    • Excalibur's 4th ability with Limbo's Banish\Cataclysm is a pure beast

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    • You're all a massive bunch of scrublords. I read through most of the thread and didn't find a single realistic estimation that would take into account anything but the bare minimum spam 4 tactics. Every single frame in the game is viable with the right builds, synergies and players.

      The whole "only the endgame matters" is complete bullshit anyway. Bet maybe one or two of you has ever run anything beyond, like, an hour-long survival. And even if you have, how often is that? Maybe 1-2% of your gametime, at BEST?

      Goddamn scrubs, go have fun with the game for once. Shit.

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    • 91.153.188.131 wrote:
      You're all a massive bunch of scrublords. I read through most of the thread and didn't find a single realistic estimation that would take into account anything but the bare minimum spam 4 tactics. Every single frame in the game is viable with the right builds, synergies and players.

      The whole "only the endgame matters" is complete bullshit anyway. Bet maybe one or two of you has ever run anything beyond, like, an hour-long survival. And even if you have, how often is that? Maybe 1-2% of your gametime, at BEST?

      Goddamn scrubs, go have fun with the game for once. Shit.

      clam down bro ._. u-uhmm r-really

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    • I'm not sure if anyone in this post already knows, but there is a very effective team for OVD that actualy involves Limbo. It's Cataclysm Limbo/Speed Nova/Disarm Loki/Vauban all with punch through builds (amprex is particularly awesome due to it's mechanics).

      It plays like this: Limbo puts Cataclysm to protect, Loki disarms everyone, Nova do her thing, Vauban clumps them in a Vortex and the punch through weapons finish the meat bubble off.

      I'm neither saying it's the best way to go nor the only way to do things, but it is, no doubt, an effective way to do high tier defences (with a Limbo on the team).

      Hope it helps anyone.

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    • 189.125.91.2 wrote:
      I'm not sure if anyone in this post already knows, but there is a very effective team for OVD that actualy involves Limbo. It's Cataclysm Limbo/Speed Nova/Disarm Loki/Vauban all with punch through builds (amprex is particularly awesome due to it's mechanics).

      It plays like this: Limbo puts Cataclysm to protect, Loki disarms everyone, Nova do her thing, Vauban clumps them in a Vortex and the punch through weapons finish the meat bubble off.

      I'm neither saying it's the best way to go nor the only way to do things, but it is, no doubt, an effective way to do high tier defences (with a Limbo on the team).

      Hope it helps anyone.

      While it might be effective, it is boring as hell. I literally - and i mean literally - fell asleep during a survival because of it.

      Frost evens the odds, the combo you named just completely disables enemies and causes eye-cancer if the Vauban hasnt picked a very dark color.

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    • Kasseopea wrote:
      189.125.91.2 wrote:
      I'm not sure if anyone in this post already knows, but there is a very effective team for OVD that actualy involves Limbo. It's Cataclysm Limbo/Speed Nova/Disarm Loki/Vauban all with punch through builds (amprex is particularly awesome due to it's mechanics).

      It plays like this: Limbo puts Cataclysm to protect, Loki disarms everyone, Nova do her thing, Vauban clumps them in a Vortex and the punch through weapons finish the meat bubble off.

      I'm neither saying it's the best way to go nor the only way to do things, but it is, no doubt, an effective way to do high tier defences (with a Limbo on the team).

      Hope it helps anyone.

      While it might be effective, it is boring as hell. I literally - and i mean literally - fell asleep during a survival because of it.

      Frost evens the odds, the combo you named just completely disables enemies and causes eye-cancer if the Vauban hasnt picked a very dark color.

      Same Lone Tenno here.

      It's about perspective: what you call "boring", other people may call "safe".

      And I may be wrong, but a strategy that "completely disables enemies" seems pretty good to me...

      Oh! And you made my day with the "eye-cancer" joke! Hahahaha

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    • 189.125.91.2 wrote:
      Kasseopea wrote:
      189.125.91.2 wrote:
      I'm not sure if anyone in this post already knows, but there is a very effective team for OVD that actualy involves Limbo. It's Cataclysm Limbo/Speed Nova/Disarm Loki/Vauban all with punch through builds (amprex is particularly awesome due to it's mechanics).

      It plays like this: Limbo puts Cataclysm to protect, Loki disarms everyone, Nova do her thing, Vauban clumps them in a Vortex and the punch through weapons finish the meat bubble off.

      I'm neither saying it's the best way to go nor the only way to do things, but it is, no doubt, an effective way to do high tier defences (with a Limbo on the team).

      Hope it helps anyone.

      While it might be effective, it is boring as hell. I literally - and i mean literally - fell asleep during a survival because of it.

      Frost evens the odds, the combo you named just completely disables enemies and causes eye-cancer if the Vauban hasnt picked a very dark color.

      Same Lone Tenno here.

      It's about perspective: what you call "boring", other people may call "safe".

      And I may be wrong, but a strategy that "completely disables enemies" seems pretty good to me...

      Oh! And you made my day with the "eye-cancer" joke! Hahahaha


      So you genuinly enjoy standing in a room with 3 walls, cramped in the ulti and shooting without aiming at a ball of enemies? Because that is not what i am playing warframe for.

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    • Maybe this was said here already, but Frost&Limbo both of them are good.

      But it's hard to go solo with Limbo, because he has no other, exept Cataclism, areal damage abilities. Limbo can only protect only 1 target/place but he surely protects it from outside attacks. Limbo - Defence, Support roles.

      Frost can use 4 Globes, so some of them can be used as temporary shelters or for slowing enemies. But even strong Globes can be destroed, so he must watch carefully. Frost - Deffence, Offence roles.

      It's good to use both of them sometimes like Limbo with small Sphere and Frost with bigger one (med Globe for protection, or big one for throwing enemies away. Just my opinion) RA

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    • 95.73.110.112 wrote:
      Maybe this was said here already, but Frost&Limbo both of them are good.

      But it's hard to go solo with Limbo, because he has no other, exept Cataclism, areal damage abilities. Limbo can only protect only 1 target/place but he surely protects it from outside attacks. Limbo - Defence, Support roles.

      Frost can use 4 Globes, so some of them can be used as temporary shelters or for slowing enemies. But even strong Globes can be destroed, so he must watch carefully. Frost - Deffence, Offence roles.

      It's good to use both of them sometimes like Limbo with small Sphere and Frost with bigger one (med Globe for protection, or big one for throwing enemies away. Just my opinion) RA

      There is a thing everyone forgets though - Limbo looks like a b!tch, while Frost was literally designed after a Boss that didn't make it into the game. Frost. Is. Boss.

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    • Kasseopea wrote:
      95.73.110.112 wrote:
      Maybe this was said here already, but Frost&Limbo both of them are good.

      But it's hard to go solo with Limbo, because he has no other, exept Cataclism, areal damage abilities. Limbo can only protect only 1 target/place but he surely protects it from outside attacks. Limbo - Defence, Support roles.

      Frost can use 4 Globes, so some of them can be used as temporary shelters or for slowing enemies. But even strong Globes can be destroed, so he must watch carefully. Frost - Deffence, Offence roles.

      It's good to use both of them sometimes like Limbo with small Sphere and Frost with bigger one (med Globe for protection, or big one for throwing enemies away. Just my opinion) RA

      There is a thing everyone forgets though - Limbo looks like a b!tch, while Frost was literally designed after a Boss that didn't make it into the game. Frost. Is. Boss.

      hmm i wonder if we will have a new storyline:the teacher(story:we need a 3rd teacher who will teach us how to wield our abilities but he refuse since he dont want to participate in the upcoming war any longer he would rather die as a peaceful tenno to remember the horros of war)it would be good if we have to fight a frost that in his mid health will turn into a frost prime and after defeat we have proved our point to him(and oh he show some sick move ._.  wow where am i going its about frost sg and limbos cataclysm..anyway i think both globes are fine for me but since frost is my main he won XD limbo is my 6th

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    • Kasseopea wrote:
      189.125.91.2 wrote:
      Kasseopea wrote:
      189.125.91.2 wrote:
      I'm not sure if anyone in this post already knows, but there is a very effective team for OVD that actualy involves Limbo. It's Cataclysm Limbo/Speed Nova/Disarm Loki/Vauban all with punch through builds (amprex is particularly awesome due to it's mechanics).

      It plays like this: Limbo puts Cataclysm to protect, Loki disarms everyone, Nova do her thing, Vauban clumps them in a Vortex and the punch through weapons finish the meat bubble off.

      I'm neither saying it's the best way to go nor the only way to do things, but it is, no doubt, an effective way to do high tier defences (with a Limbo on the team).

      Hope it helps anyone.

      While it might be effective, it is boring as hell. I literally - and i mean literally - fell asleep during a survival because of it.
      Frost evens the odds, the combo you named just completely disables enemies and causes eye-cancer if the Vauban hasnt picked a very dark color.
      Same Lone Tenno here.

      It's about perspective: what you call "boring", other people may call "safe".

      And I may be wrong, but a strategy that "completely disables enemies" seems pretty good to me...

      Oh! And you made my day with the "eye-cancer" joke! Hahahaha


      So you genuinly enjoy standing in a room with 3 walls, cramped in the ulti and shooting without aiming at a ball of enemies? Because that is not what i am playing warframe for.

      I never said I enjoy this strategy. I simply said it's a possibility (a vere effective one indeed). If you prefer other strategies, that requires some more effort to effectively employ, it's perfectly fine.

      That's the beauty of Warframe!

      You seem to like Frost a lot. It's ok. Everybody has his favorite (for some weird reason, mine is Zephyr ^^)

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    • I'm not one to favor either or, but if you can Banish a Frost and have him put a Snow Globe in the middle of a crowd (thus having him avoid most enemy damage)... things get pretty interesting pretty quickly. :3

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    • 88.159.116.156 wrote: frost's globe has the advantage that you can use it as cover and shoot wth your normal weapons.

      Limbo's cataclysm is pretty good, but compltely disables normal weapons from affecting the outside: only powers go through it.

      Frost's globe can easily be destroyed by enemies, Cataclysm cannot.


      If you have 2-3 mesas, sure, bring limbo. that's the best way to go.

      However, if you don't have mesas, just take a frost + loki (volt can also help, because his shield is indestructible. you can place it strategically to cover against most gunfire, whilst the globe stops the random shots)

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    • Mind you, this is probably just me being stupid, but if it were possible to make a good Limbo/Weapon Combo that would somehow be able to not need to use any of its abilities (which obviously is the stupid part), then wouldn't Limbo being able to banish the pod completely overshadow any Snow Globe, as it wouldn't be able to be damaged at all, indefinately? Or did they change that?

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    • I've played with both both frames respectively, frost more than Limbo for obvious reasons. I don't particularly care for either though, mostly because I have had instances where players have used both frames block my weapons in a troll manner in the past. But if I was forced to pick between the two, I would pick the one that offered the most versatility. Both frames offer substantial defense in the right hands, as shown by their advocating parties. (Some better than others..) I'll cut to the chase. I'd pick Frost. Here's why. While Limbo's cataclysm does offer a slightly better defense over Frost's globe. I hardly think its a fair trade off for being unable to use your ranged weaponry. Especially when both frames defensive capabilities are so evenly matched that you get discussions this long debating which is better. Point being, using limbo negates quite a bit of potential damage. Primaries/secondaries (Weapons that could be modded to take out certain VIP's) and sentinels, are all useless when inside cataclysm. That's over 50% of a players potential damage output. Not to mention that limbo himself relies on weapons as a primary source of damage. Frost on the other hand, isn't limited like that. All players are free to use everything at their disposal. And Frost can stand there and at least offer some modicum of fire support. Not to mention he has better CC now. So the way I see it, all you Mesa players out there, with Frost you at least have the option to switch to a weapon when the 4spam damage starts to fall off. ALT's two cents.

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    • With Frost's rework he is magnitudes better than Limbo. He can stack globes with invincibility for infinity, completely annhilate  and stop waves of enemies while nullifying the armor on even the worst enemies, and is way more survivable than Limbo. 

      Frost combines CC, armor reduction, slowdown,create on demand, and can permenant shields that can scale infinity with energy. Plus, his high armor synergizes well with Rage up to level 70ish enemies.

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    • Together they work pretty good, Frost Globe can not be damage by enemies in the rift, Snow Globe is not affected by Limbos Catalysm ;)

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    • Simple:

      Random Group = Frost

      Clan (or otherwise well organized playercell) = Limbo

      Why?

      Volt's shield allows shots to bypass the rift  so you ARE able to use your ranged weaponry. As well as you are able to be like "you pick mesa, k?" So if you are able to communicate well, Limbo is better. Too bad most randoms suck, so Frost is the way to go there.

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    • Kukicha wrote:
      Simple:

      Random Group = Frost

      Clan (or otherwise well organized playercell) = Limbo

      Why?

      Volt's shield allows shots to bypass the rift  so you ARE able to use your ranged weaponry. As well as you are able to be like "you pick mesa, k?" So if you are able to communicate well, Limbo is better. Too bad most randoms suck, so Frost is the way to go there.

      Yeah, and how much fun it is to have 3 preset warframes as well as standing still, so you always shoot through a volt shield as well as having everything go down once high-lv enemies manage to get inside the rift.

      With Frost on the other hand - do whatever you want as long as you are inside. Enemies entered the radius? NP, recast, all out.

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    • Kasseopea wrote:
      With Frost on the other hand - do whatever you want as long as you are inside. Enemies entered the radius? NP, recast, all out.

      The kick-out with Bubble has been quite the lifesaver at times in some instances; sortie defence, ally revive, position denial, even enemy kills. Wondering how Limbo might get a touchup with his rift.

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    • NeithanDiniem wrote:
      Kasseopea wrote:
      With Frost on the other hand - do whatever you want as long as you are inside. Enemies entered the radius? NP, recast, all out.
      The kick-out with Bubble has been quite the lifesaver at times in some instances; sortie defence, ally revive, position denial, even enemy kills. Wondering how Limbo might get a touchup with his rift.

      Yupp. Soloed a Sortie defense vs. Corpus (extra: Eximus Den - every enemy was an eximus after wave 5) on Frost + Opticor + Hexis Spectre to take Nullfier-Shields down.

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    • You don't need either frame in Defense, all you need is good CC and a brain. I'd prefer to not have either in a Defense group.

      Frost is for Excavation.

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    • Well that was a bit to read all at once.

      Before i state my whole opinion and sound like a complete "b!tch" for getting this wonrg, can someone please confirm: Can you or can you not shot and deal damages to enemies in a cataclysm with you?

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    • AtlasTM wrote:
      Well that was a bit to read all at once.

      Before i state my whole opinion and sound like a complete "b!tch" for getting this wonrg, can someone please confirm: Can you or can you not shot and deal damages to enemies in a cataclysm with you?


      If they are inside of it - yes. But so can they. So basically once they are inside of Cataclysm and it is any significant wave, like i.e. wave 80 in t4 you are done for, since they will just one-shot you.

      Add that Limbo has less survivability than frost and can't cast multiple cataclysms at once, as well as all the other skills of Limbo being complete garbage...welp.

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    • With the new defence system Limbo is the best seeing as there is no longer a pod but an operative.

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    • 50.166.48.246 wrote:
      With the new defence system Limbo is the best seeing as there is no longer a pod but an operative.


      ...What new defense system?

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    • Kasseopea wrote:
      50.166.48.246 wrote:
      With the new defence system Limbo is the best seeing as there is no longer a pod but an operative.

      ...What new defense system?

      What he's referring to is the new Sortie defense system, replacing a Warframe Cryopod with an "able-bodied Tenno." However, there is one thing wrong with this post; this is a thread for Cataclysm vs. Snow Globe, and not Limbo vs. Frost. Still, though, my personal opinion is that Cataclysm is better for soloing low-level Dark Sector defense missions, as it can instantly kill or seriously injure any Infested that enter, while also providing some sort of "cash-back" by the energy regen in the rift (I say Infested because most enemies are melee, and will not hesitate to rush inside the Cataclysm. Ranged enemies will have to be dispatched individually, either by Banish, or by going outside the Cataclysm, as bullets cannot travel outside the Rift). Snow Globe, on the other hand, is better for team excursions against Grineer and Corpus, as bullets are blocked by the Snow Globe, while team members inside the Globe can fire on the outside forces (Team excursions are better than solo due to two reasons: melee enemies that rush inside the globe are not affected by it unless the Augment is installed, and Snow Globe does not regen energy, and will benefit from a Trinity inside the team).

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    • 98.88.66.94 wrote:
      Kasseopea wrote:
      50.166.48.246 wrote:
      With the new defence system Limbo is the best seeing as there is no longer a pod but an operative.

      ...What new defense system?
      What he's referring to is the new Sortie defense system, replacing a Warframe Cryopod with an "able-bodied Tenno." However, there is one thing wrong with this post; this is a thread for Cataclysm vs. Snow Globe, and not Limbo vs. Frost. Still, though, my personal opinion is that Cataclysm is better for soloing low-level Dark Sector defense missions, as it can instantly kill or seriously injure any Infested that enter, while also providing some sort of "cash-back" by the energy regen in the rift (I say Infested because most enemies are melee, and will not hesitate to rush inside the Cataclysm. Ranged enemies will have to be dispatched individually, either by Banish, or by going outside the Cataclysm, as bullets cannot travel outside the Rift). Snow Globe, on the other hand, is better for team excursions against Grineer and Corpus, as bullets are blocked by the Snow Globe, while team members inside the Globe can fire on the outside forces (Team excursions are better than solo due to two reasons: melee enemies that rush inside the globe are not affected by it unless the Augment is installed, and Snow Globe does not regen energy, and will benefit from a Trinity inside the team).

      I really don't see why people dislike the globe in infested missions. I can easily keep the infested out or stunned with Frost. And yes, the discussion is Frost vs Limbo, because you can't swap abilities. Limbo's only useful ability is Cataclysm, while Frost can stun enemies with his ultimate AND with globe as well as keep them out of a big area. If anything goes awry, i can spam my ultimate until the teamnates recovered and then just return to the normal rotation.

      If you modded your Warframe properly and were an active player, you should never have energy problems (unless leech-eximus somehow goes past the defenses) in the first place.

      The only defenses i lost with Frost were T3 & T4 when i played him without max-reach, since nades sometimes just instakilled 2-3 people and nullifier prevented from stunning. Dark Sector defs tho? Easiest ones to def with Frost. Personally even easier than ther other 3 factions.

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    • Kasseopea wrote:
      98.88.66.94 wrote:
      Kasseopea wrote:
      50.166.48.246 wrote:
      With the new defence system Limbo is the best seeing as there is no longer a pod but an operative.

      ...What new defense system?
      What he's referring to is the new Sortie defense system, replacing a Warframe Cryopod with an "able-bodied Tenno." However, there is one thing wrong with this post; this is a thread for Cataclysm vs. Snow Globe, and not Limbo vs. Frost. Still, though, my personal opinion is that Cataclysm is better for soloing low-level Dark Sector defense missions, as it can instantly kill or seriously injure any Infested that enter, while also providing some sort of "cash-back" by the energy regen in the rift (I say Infested because most enemies are melee, and will not hesitate to rush inside the Cataclysm. Ranged enemies will have to be dispatched individually, either by Banish, or by going outside the Cataclysm, as bullets cannot travel outside the Rift). Snow Globe, on the other hand, is better for team excursions against Grineer and Corpus, as bullets are blocked by the Snow Globe, while team members inside the Globe can fire on the outside forces (Team excursions are better than solo due to two reasons: melee enemies that rush inside the globe are not affected by it unless the Augment is installed, and Snow Globe does not regen energy, and will benefit from a Trinity inside the team).
      I really don't see why people dislike the globe in infested missions. I can easily keep the infested out or stunned with Frost. And yes, the discussion is Frost vs Limbo, because you can't swap abilities. Limbo's only useful ability is Cataclysm, while Frost can stun enemies with his ultimate AND with globe as well as keep them out of a big area. If anything goes awry, i can spam my ultimate until the teamnates recovered and then just return to the normal rotation.

      If you modded your Warframe properly and were an active player, you should never have energy problems (unless leech-eximus somehow goes past the defenses) in the first place.

      The only defenses i lost with Frost were T3 & T4 when i played him without max-reach, since nades sometimes just instakilled 2-3 people and nullifier prevented from stunning. Dark Sector defs tho? Easiest ones to def with Frost. Personally even easier than ther other 3 factions.

      I'm sorry, but did you look at the thread title? This thread is taking into account mainly Cataclysm and Snow Globe. The other abilities may be used as support, but should not be the basis of any main arguments. Now, keep in mind, this is just my opinion, and should be counted as such. I am not trying to force opinions on anyone.


      Ok, so I've been playing with Limbo and Frost for a while now, and I personally think that for Dark Sector defenses, Limbo really shines in solo mode. Not only does it damage Infested that rush inside, it has the added bonus of blocking any tar balls and regening energy. Frost's Snow Globe is good for team plays on ranged maps, where it can live up to its fullest potential by blocking bullets while letting your team's bullets through. This is just my opinion that I've gained by plaing both frames for a while, and I think I might try to do some more Dark Sector with my Frost; you may be right.

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    • 98.88.66.94 wrote:
      Kasseopea wrote:
      98.88.66.94 wrote:
      Kasseopea wrote:
      50.166.48.246 wrote:
      With the new defence system Limbo is the best seeing as there is no longer a pod but an operative.

      ...What new defense system?
      What he's referring to is the new Sortie defense system, replacing a Warframe Cryopod with an "able-bodied Tenno." However, there is one thing wrong with this post; this is a thread for Cataclysm vs. Snow Globe, and not Limbo vs. Frost. Still, though, my personal opinion is that Cataclysm is better for soloing low-level Dark Sector defense missions, as it can instantly kill or seriously injure any Infested that enter, while also providing some sort of "cash-back" by the energy regen in the rift (I say Infested because most enemies are melee, and will not hesitate to rush inside the Cataclysm. Ranged enemies will have to be dispatched individually, either by Banish, or by going outside the Cataclysm, as bullets cannot travel outside the Rift). Snow Globe, on the other hand, is better for team excursions against Grineer and Corpus, as bullets are blocked by the Snow Globe, while team members inside the Globe can fire on the outside forces (Team excursions are better than solo due to two reasons: melee enemies that rush inside the globe are not affected by it unless the Augment is installed, and Snow Globe does not regen energy, and will benefit from a Trinity inside the team).
      I really don't see why people dislike the globe in infested missions. I can easily keep the infested out or stunned with Frost. And yes, the discussion is Frost vs Limbo, because you can't swap abilities. Limbo's only useful ability is Cataclysm, while Frost can stun enemies with his ultimate AND with globe as well as keep them out of a big area. If anything goes awry, i can spam my ultimate until the teamnates recovered and then just return to the normal rotation.

      If you modded your Warframe properly and were an active player, you should never have energy problems (unless leech-eximus somehow goes past the defenses) in the first place.

      The only defenses i lost with Frost were T3 & T4 when i played him without max-reach, since nades sometimes just instakilled 2-3 people and nullifier prevented from stunning. Dark Sector defs tho? Easiest ones to def with Frost. Personally even easier than ther other 3 factions.

      I'm sorry, but did you look at the thread title? This thread is taking into account mainly Cataclysm and Snow Globe. The other abilities may be used as support, but should not be the basis of any main arguments. Now, keep in mind, this is just my opinion, and should be counted as such. I am not trying to force opinions on anyone.


      Ok, so I've been playing with Limbo and Frost for a while now, and I personally think that for Dark Sector defenses, Limbo really shines in solo mode. Not only does it damage Infested that rush inside, it has the added bonus of blocking any tar balls and regening energy. Frost's Snow Globe is good for team plays on ranged maps, where it can live up to its fullest potential by blocking bullets while letting your team's bullets through. This is just my opinion that I've gained by plaing both frames for a while, and I think I might try to do some more Dark Sector with my Frost; you may be right.


      Yeah...no, we are talking about two Warframes. The abilities cannot be separated from those and thus the arguments cannot be separated from them as well.

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    • Problem number 1 with limbo. You cants shot stuff that is outside the buble. And not all warframes can do that, a trinity cant. Nyx cant. Etc etc. And then they are i side the buble. Wich u know thwy most definatly will get inside. Then u are as good as having nothing cause theres no protection for u or your teamates or whatever it is your defending.  Gl not dying in a swarm of enemies since u couldnt kill them while they were outside cause the team composition wasnt ideal. And in warframw ideal isnt a thing you get too often. 

      Frost snowglobe problem. Granades will get in and kill people. Seen it hapen. Rarely. But it does. But none of those times meant a full team kill. And compared to the limbo problem mentioned ahead. Il take my chances with a granade

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    • 85.245.43.160 wrote:
      Problem number 1 with limbo. You cants shot stuff that is outside the buble. And not all warframes can do that, a trinity cant. Nyx cant. Etc etc. And then they are i side the buble. Wich u know thwy most definatly will get inside. Then u are as good as having nothing cause theres no protection for u or your teamates or whatever it is your defending.  Gl not dying in a swarm of enemies since u couldnt kill them while they were outside cause the team composition wasnt ideal. And in warframw ideal isnt a thing you get too often. 

      Frost snowglobe problem. Granades will get in and kill people. Seen it hapen. Rarely. But it does. But none of those times meant a full team kill. And compared to the limbo problem mentioned ahead. Il take my chances with a granade


      Granades dont get in, their AoE does. Max range out and no problem.

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    • 85.245.43.160 wrote:

      Problem number 1 with limbo. You cants shot stuff that is outside the buble.

      Limbo can banish enemies outside the bubble, so technically you can - just one at a time.. as Limbo banishes.

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    • First thing I have to say I own both Frost & Limbo along with my other frames including Saryn, Trinity, Loki Prime, Nekros & Excalibur

      Term to know

      Energy Per Second = E/s

      Cataclysm VS Snow Globe


      Now I will start with Cataclysm

      Pros of Cataclysm: Restores 2E/s to allies inside, Lifespan based on duration, Deals damage to enemies upon entry, Can be cast to clear weak enemies, Cannot be shot into (unless target & shooter are in the Rift), Allows people with abilities that drain energy per second to use them longer or infinitely if they have a drain less than 2E/s, Energy spent to cast can be quickly recovered, Does not require a Trinity to keep it up, Cannot be killed, & has an infinite cast range

      Cons Of Cataclysm: Cannot be shot out of (unless target & shooter are in the Rift), Does not slow enemies inside. Cannot pick up drops (except life support) or carry objective items through it.

      Now onto Snow Globe

      Pros of Snow Globe: 4 second invulnerability after cast, Can be cast 4 time before a globe is removed, Can be shot out of, Health is adjustable by power strength & armor, Can be detonated with Freeze to deal damage (not sure what the numbers are), Slows enemies upon entry, Can pick up drops & objective items inside it, & Globe stacking adds old globe’s health to the new one (assuming it was cast inside it).


      Cons of Snow Globe: In most high level missions requires a Trinity to supply energy for constant re-casting, Has health, Can be “One Shot”, Can be shot into by railgun MOAs.


      These are all of the pros & cons I could think of. I myself prefer Cataclysm over Snow Globe because I don’t have to rely on a Trinity to supply energy so I can keep recasting Snow Globe.

      Oh & side note you can just roll to get unbanished assuming you were banished by Limbo.

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    • 50.166.50.95 wrote:
      Now onto Snow Globe

      Pros of Snow Globe: 4 second invulnerability after cast, Can be cast 4 time before a globe is removed, Can be shot out of, Health is adjustable by power strength & armor, Can be detonated with Freeze to deal damage (not sure what the numbers are), Slows enemies upon entry, Can pick up drops & objective items inside it, & Globe stacking adds old globe’s health to the new one (assuming it was cast inside it).

      Casting Globe with enemies in it's radius freezes them and flings them out from the epicenter, with frozen enemies that were thrown taking up to 50% max health finisher damage from hitting obstacles, with damage bypassing armor and shields. Enemies entering the globe have their attack/movement speeds reduced up to 67%. Breaking a globe with freeze deals a 150 undiminished, strength affected cold damage and triggers ragdoll to all within range. Globes can be stacked till they have a combined total health of 1 million.

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    • I don't know their physics, but snow globe and cataclysm are for different playstyles; snow globe is for the guys that stand on the pod and shoot a tonkor and/or penta at the enimies, and the cataclysm is for more roaming players like me that only go near the pod when it's in danger.

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    • Zxorn wrote:
      You don't need either frame in Defense, all you need is good CC and a brain. I'd prefer to not have either in a Defense group.

      Frost is for Excavation.

      While you might be able to get away with Frost in defense, going as far as saying you don't "Need" Frost is going overboard. Frost makes everything easier in Defence, Intervention and Excavation missions. Specifically, Void Defense, as there are some Defense missions better done without the big bubble. But when we are talking Void Defense missions, no - you are better off with Frost's bubble protecting the pod and slowing down enemies getting near.

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    • I main both Limbo and Frost, and for me I choose whichever one is best for the faction I'm up against. I choose Limbo for Grineer, as Cataclysm is perfect for anything long-range, and Butchers and Scorpions are easily dispatched myself, and Frost for Corpus and Infested, especialy with the Chilling Globe augment, as MOAs and almost anything Infested will be slowed or frozen solid by Chilling Globe, and can then be killed with melee. Of the two I prefer using Frost for defence, as I much prefer to set up my snow globe then go out farming kills, while keeping an eye on it's health and coming back when it needs to be reset, rather than having to stick close to the pod and recasting every minute or so to keep the pod defended.

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    • Wow!!! So just to confirm, does anyone who has done 80+ waves of OVD(Orokin Void Defense) with Limbo have a squad setup with Limbo that they can share for the OP so he/she and his/her friends can enjoy going as far possible?

      As far as the problem the OP mentioned with the frost bubble I would add to maybe cast it every 2-3secs if bubble is getting one shot and shots getting in during recasting after the 4th second of invincibility(you want to account for casting time). But I digress as this is not what you are asking.

      I have not yet done 80+ OVD with limbo so :( I cannot offer the answer you seek. If i do go up that high it is usually because someone's frame glitched. We would be on a sugar high until everyone but them die and then extract, or the glitched person would goof and rezz ppl and the target would get destroyed and yeah sad faces for all 4 of us. This was during old one key/many waves so I imagine the glitches was stuff DE may have been trying out for reactant buffs.

      So....I can only guess at team setups for Limbo 80+ OVD which is as helpful as an extra hole in the head. If anyone has done 80+ waves of OVD with Limbo please share some team setups ....with Limbo that work for you with the OP(Original Poster).

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    • >.> Someone was puzzled as to why one would use Limbo 4th ability over Snowglobe in low lvl infested defense. I personally used a max range/high power build pre Equinox to counter Ember getting more kills than me(XD I imagined myself as Goku using a spirit bomb) for basically the same reason, upto a certain lvl(think 18 but its been awhile since I used it) it oneshots the mobs. Well infested you have to worry about nullifiers and healers.

      And if you really want to see the pug ember(the high mr ones and just for low lvl exterminates you can one shot) leave, time it so it goes off thru a dorrway just as they open it. 2-3 of those and not only will you be halfway but the ember will have mysterously vanished. But Equinox can do higher with less effort(it took a lot of trial and error to get the timing down with Limbo with and without natural talent).

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    • When I've used limbo for defense I lowered the range to where it just covered the pod but long duration worked great I was always in the void so if anyone dropped I picked them up or tossed them in for health  and I would pick off HVT's to give the group less problems. You can always go for enough range for the group and limbo can start tossing baddies into the void go with the most dangerous further off while the simpler ones can be sorted out as they enter inside, also I think volts shield lets you shoot outside the cataclysm.

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    • RabidScholar wrote:
       also I think volts shield lets you shoot outside the cataclysm.

      Im pretty sure that was patched a few months ago, but I could be wrong.

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    • For most players I would tell people Frost for Gunnned Enemy Defense objectives and Ice Wave Impedance for Melee. (Always Max Range and Efficiency is my take on Frost)


      For those that have a max Narrow Minded and are good at 1vs1 encounters and strong weapons- Limbo with Minimum Range on Defense objectives. -Cast the measly 3.4m Cataclysm on Defense Objectives Center point as it moves entire Object into rift for duration of Cataclysm. (It is too small for enemies to get inside Cataclysm and thus allows all enemies to be dealt with outside the rift) It even lets extractors receive power cells while being untouchable. -Sortie Defense is like Reduce where you Banish Ally with no need for Cataclysm

      Limbo himself either resorts to fighting in normal plane with rest of teammates OR only going after Bansihsed Targets.


      It is much easier to find a Frost player that can be sloppy and still get the mission done with out a squad flipping out.

      Finding a decent Limbo seems to be harder. Especially in infested missions when a Juggernaut arrives in side their large Cataclysm.

      I'm looking forwards to Limbo tweak/rework. Hopefully more Loot friendly and if he is not getting CC then perhaps more environment or damage control on abilities.

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    • I can't believe after a whole two years this thread is still going haha Good discussion though, very interesting to read through

      I think when it comes down to it both are good for the job but the limbo option requires more team coordination. So I would say if you are putting a team together and really discussing strategy before beginning because you want to get far then use a limbo option, when ten bombards and napalms are shooting at me I would rather be in the rift than in a frost bubble

      However if you are just throwing together a quick team and not planning frost is the better choice, because without proper coordination a limbo strat can get screwed up really easily (especially if he suddenly has no energy) whereas a frost can be more consistent

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    • I don't see the issue here. A decently built Limbo can easily provide a safe haven anywhere, for any mission type. Obviously he's good at defending a point, then. The only argument I've consistently seen against him is: I CANT HIT ACROSS PLANES OMG

      Then move. Seriously. It doesn't take team coordination. It barely even takes thought. With cataclysm, if you want to be in the rift and gain its benefits, then do so. If not, then step out. Want both? Stay near the edge of the cataclysm and go in/out as needed. Problem solved.

      Since the rework, I've gone to maining him. Loved his concept before, but it was executed pretty terribly. Now he's good in general. I still get people in my parties that whine about his mechanics making them actually have to use their brain, to whom I say: "I'm carrying you, honey. git gud"

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    • Frost: Globe has health pool, you can shoot from the inside to the outside, enemies can easily swarm inside it albeit moving slowly.

      Limbo: Catacalysm is invincible, has a limited duration, can't shoot enemies on the outside in the inside and vice versa, add in stasis and nothing can move in it and become easy prey for melee.

      While frost may have more advantages teamwork-wise, Limbo is better at defending imo.

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    • It's only now, two years later, that I realize the OP wrote "Clobe" in the title.

      Also, I like to use max range (250%) Frost Globe just to perma slow bosses and all the kinds of enemies that are "resistant" to abilities, because they can't resist the Globe's slow debuff. And when the Globe is so big, it receives fewer hits since more enemies are inside, and the enemies outside are more likely to be out of range to target the people inside.

      A neat little niche tactic that proved to be useful more than once to the squads I joined.

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    • nice trick, i will use this giant globe!

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    • 27.111.71.78 wrote:
      Frost: Globe has health pool, you can shoot from the inside to the outside, enemies can easily swarm inside it albeit moving slowly.

      Limbo: Catacalysm is invincible, has a limited duration, can't shoot enemies on the outside in the inside and vice versa, add in stasis and nothing can move in it and become easy prey for melee.

      While frost may have more advantages teamwork-wise, Limbo is better at defending imo.


      Id add in there that Cataclysm decays and shrinks in size, making recasting be even more required to cover the needed area. Bit of a negative towards it, but it is still on its own equally comparable and useful to Globe.

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    • Here's a good strategy:

      1. Bring a Limbo, Disarm Loki, Speed Nova, then any other frame you want.

      2. Put a cataclysm and statsis around the pod.

      3. Have loki disarm and nova speed up the enemies

      That way everything just rushes into to the bubble and u can melee them once they enter

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    • Bruh, I'm getting notifications on a thread I replied to two years ago. Let it die, let it die.

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    • EXN0V4 wrote:
      Bruh, I'm getting notifications on a thread I replied to two years ago. Let it die, let it die.


      Unfollow it, its what Im about to do anyways. Button is at the top of the thread.

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    • Limbo doesn't require team coordination if you have a small cataclysm. Just bring a good, well modded melee weapon and kill anything in your rift. Narumon way is also nice for the camo melee damage. Your team can continue to kill everything else, step in the rift when they need to heal or avoid procs with stasis, and step out and keep killing if they understand there's a bubble protecting the defense pod. Anything that gets past your team into the rift at the pod u can happily kill yourself.

      Also, when ur timers get low bullet jump straight up, dash into the rift in any direction, land, recast stasis, take away cataclysm, step back onto the defense pod and recast cataclysm. If you do this fast enough there's very little to no chance you'll take damage and you don't have to worry about being in the normal plane when recasting cataclysm endgame.

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    • Tfw you're reading this aftet the Limbo rework. Max duration, max range, cataclysm + stasis is all you really need. Throw in a Frost to protect Limbo during the brief recast of cataclysm so he doesn't get one shot. Frost can also be replaced by a cheeky spot to stand. Entering the rift and casting cataclysm far enough away so it won't put you in it means you remain in the rift indefinitely. The only possible problem is on Corpus missions where a Nullifier Crewman or a Bursa.

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    • "Tfw you're reading this aftet the Limbo rework. Max duration, max range, cataclysm + stasis is all you really need. "

      No, don't use max range in public defense games. It's not at all curteous to your teammates. As I stated already AFTER  the rework, "Limbo doesn't require team coordination if you have a small cataclysm." As in a no stretch cataclysm with narrow minded. The smallest cataclysm size possible.

      Why? Because some of your teammates might actually want to shoot something. Some can pobably clear areas in seconds without a max range stasis cataclysm (staticlysm) in the way.

      The only times you should be going max range with limbo in public games is in hijack or excavation. Hijack is obvious, and in excavation you still have to know what you're doing with a max range cataclysm in order to not get in teammates way. Mainly, wait until the excavator is powered before you use staticlysm is on it UNLESS your teammates can't kill the enemies fast enough to keep it safe themselves. That way your teammates can start the next excavator while you god mode protect the previous one until it's done. However, later on in excavation you can start using rift surge to freeze nearby enemies and get kills for yourself, but that's after your team starts slowing down on getting kills against higher level enemies.

      I suggest you use narumon with Limbo. That way you don't need max range for anything, can get camo safely in your rift, and step out and massacre enemies with camo damage multiplier

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    • " That way you don't need max range for anything, "

      • correction* you don't need max range for Limbo's abilities
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    • "No, don't use max range in public defense games. It's not at all curteous to your teammates. As I stated already AFTER the rework, "Limbo doesn't require team coordination if you have a small cataclysm." As in a no stretch cataclysm with narrow minded. The smallest cataclysm size possible.

      Why? Because some of your teammates might actually want to shoot something. Some can pobably clear areas in seconds without a max range stasis cataclysm (staticlysm) in the way."

      I agree with your statement here. It may not seem courteous to other players in a public defense. As a counter though it also makes your teammates be much more active and makes high level waves more relaxed. Please allow me to explain my position on this.

      With a small Limbo staticlysm (very nice word combination by the way), Limbo acts more as a fail safe, if anyone gets to the pod the won't be able to attack it which is nice. However, in higher level defense waves this tends to put Limbo in danger. When Limbo acts as a fail safe for the pod he is usually found inside it to better manage the clearing of enemies that reach it's walls with melee attacks. Now Limbo is a squishy frame. That's a blunt truth. Sure he might be safe while inside the staticlysm but as soon as he has to recast the combo he is put into danger due to the now extremely close enemies (due to the small bubble) being very capable of killing him or laying down a massive amount of burst and getting him close to death during his animation. I.e. it is safer for Limbo with a larger ranged staticlysm.

      Now about the regards of your teammates while playing the rift diving gentleman. With a large bubble, it's true, your team will be incapable of shooting the enemies caught inside. However they can finally bust out that nikana prime or gallatine prime or hate that they worked so hard to get. There does come a certain satisfaction from chopping a multitude of enemies down and having all of their body pieces explode at once as soon as stasis ends. It also allows for the drops of these enemies to be safely collected within the rift. Using a large staticlysm also makes the defense more into an enjoyable minigame of finding where the enemies are spawning and cutting them off before they get the chance to make it to the bubble. With a small staticlysm your team still groups around the pod and it becomes boringly competitive as all three of you are trying to shoot down the enemies that approach from your left or right (in broad arcs granted) before the others do. And quite frankly, if you've queued up for a public defense mission, you're likely doing it for the rewards at the end and will willingly let Limbo handle all 15 waves by himself while you get up and make some tea.

      As for the state of clearing the waves faster if the enemies aren't caught in a staticlysm, it simply isn't true. As I am sure you are aware of the staticylsm's nature (shrinking slowly as enemies endlessly run into it, repeatedly taking damage as they enter and exit the rift) it clears enemies remarkably fast. Enemies will also usually group (which is when these amazing aoe enemy clearing abilities are effective) only when close to the pod, a place that a small staticlysm will still affect.

      Limbo in a solo defense is also hands down better with a large staticlysm.

      In regards to the original topic of the thread though, I believe we both can agree that Limbo outdoes Frost by a large margin, no matter how you play him.

      TL;DR: Big Limbo bubble is just as good as small Limbo bubble in public defense if not better because it relaxes the game.

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    • I just wanted to drop in and say that Limbo is a worthless frame that does nothing special. He's like a street magician- fun tricks with no real worth. 

      Also, snowman globe is so much better than Cataclysm. Chilling Globe literally renders Limbo's 4 and 2 keys completely worthless in comparison (It's not even a bad mod otherwise) and you can still shoot out of it, like most people have noted. 

      If you really feel the need to bring a Volt to a defense, something's wrong or you're just... really desperate. 

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    • I don't know if it's a bug or something, but Limbo still isn't possible in high level defense missions. Even with the rework there seems to be a problem in that projectiles fired outside of cataclysm enter it, pass through it, and hit the defense objective.

      Stasis only seems to affect projectiles fired inside cataclysm from a frozen enemy that's entered it. I've done multiple defense runs and suddenly double taked on the health of the objective because every enemy who entered is frozen in place due to my stasis.

      Simple observation showed me level 40 bombard rockets passing right through cataclysm and hitting the objective regardless of whether or not stasis was active. It's always the god damn bombards that glitch in stuff like this.

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    • "I just wanted to drop in and say that Limbo is a worthless frame that does nothing special. He's like a street magician- fun tricks with no real worth."

      Then you're using him wrong. Even the bad Limbos know you can cheese Mobile Defense. And the better ones know he is far more capable than that.

      "Also, snowman globe is so much better than Cataclysm. Chilling Globe literally renders Limbo's 4 and 2 keys completely worthless in comparison (It's not even a bad mod otherwise) and you can still shoot out of it, like most people have noted. "

      Actually, Chilling Globe only freezes half of the enemies Stasis does. It only freezes 50% of enemies. Limbo's 4 also has infinite health, unlike frost globe. Much more effective at endgame. And if you really want to shoot out of a narrow minded cataclysm with weapons at enemies on both planes of existence, just bring a max range mag.

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    • "I don't know if it's a bug or something, but Limbo still isn't possible in high level defense missions. Even with the rework there seems to be a problem in that projectiles fired outside of cataclysm enter it, pass through it, and hit the defense objective."

      Actually, this was a bug with Limbo that just got fixed last week. Defensive Objectives can now be pulled into the rift again. I noticed you posted that 16 hours ago, looks like you need to play wf more lol

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    • " Now Limbo is a squishy frame. That's a blunt truth. Sure he might be safe while inside the staticlysm but as soon as he has to recast the combo he is put into danger due to the now extremely close enemies (due to the small bubble) being very capable of killing him or laying down a massive amount of burst and getting him close to death during his animation. I.e. it is safer for Limbo with a larger ranged staticlysm."

      Not sure what you mean by danger when recasting a small cataclysm. You should already be out of a small cataclysm, and back in the rift, before you recast it anyways. Just stand next to it. You should only be using a larger rift in regular defense if you plan on going past wave 30 or 40 (the more well built ones can get to wave 70 akkad with just narrow minded for range). In other words, probably not a public game. That's when the sort of panic switch limbo comes into play. And even then you should only be using it more and more often as your team can't stop dmg to the pod thru pure dps with various weapons that aren't always going to be melee. Eventually, yeah, the panic switch just stays up as you get into the later rounds, THAT'S when you make things super casual for your teammates. Until then, especially if you do a lot of public matches, I can garuntee you've been holding back a lot dps from some people that could've just killed everything much faster than melee.

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    • "As for the state of clearing the waves faster if the enemies aren't caught in a staticlysm, it simply isn't true. As I am sure you are aware of the staticylsm's nature (shrinking slowly as enemies endlessly run into it, repeatedly taking damage as they enter and exit the rift) it clears enemies remarkably fast. "

      Only, in lower level missions. Or if you wait a while. And again, you've probably held some teammates nuke-like weapons back in public matches.

      "Limbo in a solo defense is also hands down better with a large staticlysm."

      Agreed, but only if it's not a public match and you're doing a high level more endgame type endless mission.

      "In regards to the original topic of the thread though, I believe we both can agree that Limbo outdoes Frost by a large margin, no matter how you play him."

      Yeah, pretty much agreed there too.

      TL;DR: Big Limbo bubble is just as good as small Limbo bubble in public defense if not better because it relaxes the game.

      Small bubble is better for public matches. Big is better for higher level matches.

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    • correction: Small bubble is better for public regular defense matches. Big is better for higher level regular defense matches.

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    • Hi everyone. I'm the OP of this thread.

      First off, I'm at a loss of words that, after nearly 3 years, this thread is still going quite strong :O

      Second, let me say that when I first made this post I was only taking into consideration the raw stats and values of Cataclysm and Snow Globe and forgot entirely about warframe builds and team composition. After reading almost everything you guys said, I came to the conclusion that it all depends on what your team, bet it random people or friends, can work with. Both Limbo and Frost can be equally viable in the right hands and with the right builds.

      Anyway, I'll continue to work with both Limbo and Frost and switching between them depending on what the situation calls for. Thank you all for your time and support :)

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    • 2804:7F1:E001:CDC2:C8DB:47B6:BEC1:1014 wrote:

      Hi everyone. I'm the OP of this thread.

      First off, I'm at a loss of words that, after nearly 3 years, this thread is still going quite strong :O

      Second, let me say that when I first made this post I was only taking into consideration the raw stats and values of Cataclysm and Snow Globe and forgot entirely about warframe builds and team composition. After reading almost everything you guys said, I came to the conclusion that it all depends on what your team, bet it random people or friends, can work with. Both Limbo and Frost can be equally viable in the right hands and with the right builds.

      Anyway, I'll continue to work with both Limbo and Frost and switching between them depending on what the situation calls for. Thank you all for your time and support :)

      I'm sorry if my reaply appears to get off the screen. Don't know what happen to my PC while I was writing it. Just click to reply and roll to the right to see the rest.

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    • Well now there is also Gara's wall to be considered, has the time based stopping power, and can be shot through by players. 

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    • Gara's 4th is nerfed and is now health based.

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    • Gara's 2nd. No denial zone, make the defense target itself a tank. 

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    • I don't know if anyone above mentioned this is only tag the first like 7 posts but limbo with overextended on can  be one of the most useful frames spelt negate if guy can also put on enough duration mods,  casting stasis then a massive cataclysm freezes enemies in place and allows your squad to soak abilities on defenseless targets unable to move . Especially if you have a revenantes casting Reave to strip armor or hydroid with corrosive barrage augment to strip armor, it makes it even easier

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    • Also a few posts up a reply incorrectly states that you can get a big cataclysm using narrow minded for range. Narrow minded is a duration mods that actually negatively effects range. I think they meant overextended, which massively increases range but being a down ability strength but since none of limbosome abilities really rely on strength it's a non issue. Mod for range and duration but not with narrow minded as it cancels out your range modding

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    • A Lone Tenno
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