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  • Twilight053
    Twilight053 closed this thread because:
    Nekros'd argumentbait thread.
    01:37, April 21, 2015

    As written in the 14.6 Changelog: 

    • The 14.6.0 fix resolves issues where Rage + Quick Thinking gave effective permanent invulnerability because energy was being added to pool that was never dealt to player. With this change in mind, the combination of Rage and Quick Thinking may seem less efficient as before due to no longer giving effective invulnerability. The scope of this change is being monitored to ensure the usefulness of these Mods as a combination.

    Basically they wanted to change this combination from "PRETTY FUCKING OP" to "nice". But like always such changes just break a mechanic. I just tested its "Usefulness" on Mercury, after getting to the infamous 2HP mark a lvl4 Butcher was able to kill me in 4 hits( i have a 202 energy pool), which basically means, that this mod combination isn't even useful at the very beginning of the game.

    Even DE thinks that Rage + Quick Thinking should mean something to the community, but nerfing it in such a way isnt the right choice. This combo has always meant to be something like a godmode, but if you nerf god, whats left of it? Just increasing the efficiency of the combination also wouldnt be a good solution, because it wouldn't scale into lategame (and btw, those are some lategame mods). So why shouldn't DE just completely change the Mechanics on this Combo? They could actually make something like "after your health dropps below 3HP your energy gets drained and you gain 1second of damage immunity for every (x) Energy you had" instead of "balancing" it out.

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    • moved to Warframe discussion board

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    • You do realize that,

      1. 202 Energy won't really help that much...

      2. That must be a really, REALLY low rank Quick thinking if your energy goes down that fast...

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    • Mac10smg wrote: You do realize that,

      1. 202 Energy won't really help that much...

      2. That must be a really, REALLY low rank Quick thinking if your energy goes down that fast...


      1. it really doesn't matter, the point is that basically the weakest enemie can 4 shot you. if you go 30 levels upwards probably not even 3000 energy would save you... 2. Its max rank, perhaps this means it is bugged? i really don't know

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    • I discussed of this with my friends. These mods are for expests...or for lucky ones...Quick Thinking in particular. We tested this combo even too much and come to the conclusion that this is almost the only way to effectively survive in T4 missions. In survival T4 it was needed 45 minutes of play to let this mod combo become almost useless. Now, it's useless after just 10 minutes. We had to bring a full squad of Valkyr to survive up to 37 minutes. No other frame made it with no matter what mods. Enemies just kills you too fast...something around 6 machine gun hits to kill a Rhino with maxed Iron Skin, Vitality, Redirection, Vigor, Flow and Quick Thinking. This is not fair. The DE is powering up enemies and nerfing all frames and mods. This game is starting to become a survival game instead of a TPS. At this point they could add a 1 second of invulnerability DURING dodges...making them effectively useful other than be just a "nice to see" move since, no matter how much you jump or dodge, if you do not have a solid object between you and an enemy it WILL hit you. The only chance for a enemy to miss you is that he is too far and using a machine gun...then they won't hit you...but just because of the spread of they're gun, not for they're aim.

      I can accept the low ammo on heavy weapons...but they are making the game almost impossible. Something that goes far more than having a good hard challenge...

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    • i like that because rage and quick thinking were not made to make you invincible and i want to say something the the commenter above me:you odnt need 4 valkyrs to do that some good CC like rhino zephyr or nyx will just be fine and make sure you use your knowckdown attack to make these gunners useless

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    • Zappy96 wrote:
      i like that because rage and quick thinking were not made to make you invincible and i want to say something the the commenter above me:you odnt need 4 valkyrs to do that some good CC like rhino zephyr or nyx will just be fine and make sure you use your knowckdown attack to make these gunners useless

      The only flaw with that logic is the general idea of super-buff enemies. Yes, you can CC them. That doesn't guaruntee you can kill them, let alone get RNG to drop an energy orb. 4 Energy Siphons is not enough to be spamming massive CC skills constantly, and if you can't kill the enemies faster than you burn energy, you ultimately end up dead. Furthermore, with the sheer volume of enemies pouring in, you can't CC all of them 24-7. A few will trickle in, and at 35 minutes and higher, 1 Heavy Gunner is all it takes to murder you if you don't see it coming. 

      Additionally, almost all forms of CC are unreliable. To point out your listed ones:

      Rhino's Stomp is too expensive to spam constantly, especially if you are going Corrupt Blind Rhino. Even if you go full efficiency Rhino, you can't kill enemies as fast as you burn energy to keep ALL enemies suspended.

      Zephyr's Tornados are massively unreliable, and don't really serve well as CC. Her Dive Bomb is also unreliable, with buggy hit registry, and requiring you to be in close proximity of the enemies to make it effective. Her Turbulence may prove useful, but if 1 bullet doesn't get significant accuracy drop, it will hit and hurt, badly. A second one would be death. Any projectiles that make it through, or if anyone gets in the point-blank zone, and you're as dead as a bucket of fried chicken. Literally.


      I myself have never gotten to taste the invincibility of Rage Thinking, but it is kind of a cheat way to pass the levels, although it becomes mandatory due to the flaw in the way DE creates artificial difficulty through buff enemies. DE needs to keep in scope what the players are going up against while pulling these changes under our feet like dingy rugs.

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    • i have this befor it was vary fun dualing the stalker but let the whiners have there fun nerfing stuff to ground 

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    • instead of explain things I'm gonna just left the video here, all you need to know to reach two hour in t4 sup
      Warframe - 2-hour Tower IV Survival run by Tenn Os

      Warframe - 2-hour Tower IV Survival run by Tenn Os

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    • Things i have learned:

      R+QT invulnerability got nerfed back in u10 or u11... this is massively old news.

      Dont bring rhino to T4, rhino is a terrible CC.

      Nyx+Nova+Loki+Nekros is great in t4s. switch nekros or nova for excal, vauban (if your team is coordinated enough to camp), or trinity depending on situation. this sort of setup can lock down mobs forever. a trinity can provide infinite energy, as long as your team is not moronic and attacks a vamped mob. weapons like tysis or serro are essential to ccing/killing heavies almost instantly, dont have every person run BP/marelok/derpnikana

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    • Baradiele wrote: I discussed of this with my friends. These mods are for expests...or for lucky ones...Quick Thinking in particular. We tested this combo even too much and come to the conclusion that this is almost the only way to effectively survive in T4 missions. In survival T4 it was needed 45 minutes of play to let this mod combo become almost useless. Now, it's useless after just 10 minutes. We had to bring a full squad of Valkyr to survive up to 37 minutes. No other frame made it with no matter what mods. Enemies just kills you too fast...something around 6 machine gun hits to kill a Rhino with maxed Iron Skin, Vitality, Redirection, Vigor, Flow and Quick Thinking. This is not fair. The DE is powering up enemies and nerfing all frames and mods. This game is starting to become a survival game instead of a TPS. At this point they could add a 1 second of invulnerability DURING dodges...making them effectively useful other than be just a "nice to see" move since, no matter how much you jump or dodge, if you do not have a solid object between you and an enemy it WILL hit you. The only chance for a enemy to miss you is that he is too far and using a machine gun...then they won't hit you...but just because of the spread of they're gun, not for they're aim.

      I can accept the low ammo on heavy weapons...but they are making the game almost impossible. Something that goes far more than having a good hard challenge...

      seriously? the game is WAAAAAY too easy in its current state... if you got problems at less then 1hr of T4 survival you need better gear... or better skills... probably the latter...

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    • 83.93.3.177 wrote:

      Baradiele wrote: I discussed of this with my friends. These mods are for expests...or for lucky ones...Quick Thinking in particular. We tested this combo even too much and come to the conclusion that this is almost the only way to effectively survive in T4 missions. In survival T4 it was needed 45 minutes of play to let this mod combo become almost useless. Now, it's useless after just 10 minutes. We had to bring a full squad of Valkyr to survive up to 37 minutes. No other frame made it with no matter what mods. Enemies just kills you too fast...something around 6 machine gun hits to kill a Rhino with maxed Iron Skin, Vitality, Redirection, Vigor, Flow and Quick Thinking. This is not fair. The DE is powering up enemies and nerfing all frames and mods. This game is starting to become a survival game instead of a TPS. At this point they could add a 1 second of invulnerability DURING dodges...making them effectively useful other than be just a "nice to see" move since, no matter how much you jump or dodge, if you do not have a solid object between you and an enemy it WILL hit you. The only chance for a enemy to miss you is that he is too far and using a machine gun...then they won't hit you...but just because of the spread of they're gun, not for they're aim.

      I can accept the low ammo on heavy weapons...but they are making the game almost impossible. Something that goes far more than having a good hard challenge...

      seriously? the game is WAAAAAY too easy in its current state... if you got problems at less then 1hr of T4 survival you need better gear... or better skills... probably the latter...

      I am far from being a REAL pro player in this game and I don't think I will ever be one but, since you seem so confident in yourself, could you illuminate me with you're performance?

      A video...or, more easly a sceen-shot of the final results of a T4 survival.

      OR, you can find me in game with this same nikname and give me a demonstration.

      "It is bad to say the truth", they say...but I don't belive you.

      Feel free to prove me wrong, tough :D

      Baradiele

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    • people go past an hour all the time. the ones to worry about are the ones that think 30 minutes is har,d or more hilariously, the ones who die vs vor. badly equipped, no coordination or teamwork.

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    • Rhionhi wrote:
      people go past an hour all the time. the ones to worry about are the ones that think 30 minutes is har,d or more hilariously, the ones who die vs vor. badly equipped, no coordination or teamwork.


      Never said it's impossible now to arrive and surpass 1 hour. Just sayng that I do not belive that is "WAAAAAY too easy". I personally cannot make it for 2 major reasons, I think:

      1) Skill, since I have almost no major mods maxed out and I tend to not search a wall to block the bullets I usually go Head-Down on the enemies...altough, when I start dyng like 3 times in 50 seconds, usually I revisit this strategy :P

      2) Teamwork. It is hard to find someone who actually plays WITH you (maybe I'm just unluky). Me and my friend can make up to 27 minutes with Oberon and Nekros...but we are just 2...

      Lastly, the coordination goes with teamwork...that it is hard to make as well.

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    • Personally, I've never had any trouble with T4 missions at all, including taking a survival up to 50 minutes, and I don't think ANYONE in my group used the Rage/Quick Thinking combo. Hell, most of us don't even roll tanky frames. That 50m survival, I was playing Nova with a group of three random players, so we didn't have any communication or anything

      I think DE was right in this: it's not a nerf, it's a bug-fix. The combo was doing something VERY powerful that they weren't intending it to do, so they corrected the oversight. So instead of relying on cheese invinvible tactics, play the game smart :) Take cover, aim for the head, use your abilities to stay alive. Getting a good team helps too, of course.

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    • "Learn how to play"?  You're expecting way too much from some people.

      It's like expecting DE to balance mods.

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    • Baradiele wrote:
      Rhionhi wrote:
      people go past an hour all the time. the ones to worry about are the ones that think 30 minutes is har,d or more hilariously, the ones who die vs vor. badly equipped, no coordination or teamwork.

      Never said it's impossible now to arrive and surpass 1 hour. Just sayng that I do not belive that is "WAAAAAY too easy". I personally cannot make it for 2 major reasons, I think:

      1) Skill, since I have almost no major mods maxed out and I tend to not search a wall to block the bullets I usually go Head-Down on the enemies...altough, when I start dyng like 3 times in 50 seconds, usually I revisit this strategy :P

      2) Teamwork. It is hard to find someone who actually plays WITH you (maybe I'm just unluky). Me and my friend can make up to 27 minutes with Oberon and Nekros...but we are just 2...

      Lastly, the coordination goes with teamwork...that it is hard to make as well.


      Wat r u? Casul? I'm doing duo t4's all the time with my friend coz randoms always do stupid things like "IMMA RHINO WITH IRON SKIN AND STOMP, IMMA GOD, I WILL WONDER OF AND DIE IN PAIN COZ IMMA FCKTARD". Its not easy coz its not intended to be. Its an "end game" content so do yourself a favour and l2p\max all mods needed for that. Or you could just go to appolodorus all the time ;D.

      Also, R + QT was OP as hell, glad they nerfed it.

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    • 82.114.244.141 wrote:


      Wat r u? Casul? I'm doing duo t4's all the time with my friend coz randoms always do stupid things like "IMMA RHINO WITH IRON SKIN AND STOMP, IMMA GOD, I WILL WONDER OF AND DIE IN PAIN COZ IMMA FCKTARD". Its not easy coz its not intended to be. Its an "end game" content so do yourself a favour and l2p\max all mods needed for that. Or you could just go to appolodorus all the time ;D.

      Also, R + QT was OP as hell, glad they nerfed it.

      You dont need maxed mods to do a T4, so do us all a favor and stop relying on stupid arguments. Teamwork and skill will always trump maxed mods and idiocy.

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    • NeithanDiniem wrote:

      You dont need maxed mods to do a T4, so do us all a favor and stop relying on stupid arguments. Teamwork and skill will always trump maxed mods and idiocy.

      Yup, sure, when u have like 300 hp and sheilds and doing zero damage, its completely okay. Im sorry, I didnt understand that. I'm gonna go and farm T4 with shitty unranked mods coz apparently, thats how pros like you are doing that.

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    • 82.114.244.141 wrote:
      NeithanDiniem wrote:

      You dont need maxed mods to do a T4, so do us all a favor and stop relying on stupid arguments. Teamwork and skill will always trump maxed mods and idiocy.

      Yup, sure, when u have like 300 hp and sheilds and doing zero damage, its completely okay. Im sorry, I didnt understand that. I'm gonna go and farm T4 with shitty unranked mods coz apparently, thats how pros like you are doing that.

      See that right there? thats you not taking the time to read. I didnt say unranked mods, I said you dont need MAXED mods. Nor did I say completely bare bone unranked warframe, like you seem to be stupidly implying.

      Clanmate and I just ran through 3 T4 missions without a sweat. I had unmaxed melee weapon and quite a few unmaxed mods, and so did the other guy. we both had under 600 HP nor had frames that are considered by the idiot "metas" out there as "necessary." Vor appeared in 2 of the missions and we had him down is less than a minute both times. Its called skill and being comfortable with how your frame works and how your weapons handle.

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    • 82.114.244.141 wrote:
      NeithanDiniem wrote:

      You dont need maxed mods to do a T4, so do us all a favor and stop relying on stupid arguments. Teamwork and skill will always trump maxed mods and idiocy.

      Yup, sure, when u have like 300 hp and sheilds and doing zero damage, its completely okay. Im sorry, I didnt understand that. I'm gonna go and farm T4 with shitty unranked mods coz apparently, thats how pros like you are doing that.

      Why the exaggeration? What is it with dealing in absolutes just to belittle someone's argument? That's not even what they were saying. It's possible to run a proper setup with certain mods that are one or two ranks from max. It's common sense and using some logic that would tell you 300 HP/shields is ridiculous and of course you'd be trying to beef up your weapons. You're not helping your own point by demeaning someone else.

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    • The problem is that T4 is quite hard if you do not have the proper mods, but once you have the true end-game gear, it become very, very easy to reach the 1 hour mark.

      Three frames are absolutely essential for this:

      Nekros, which allow you to actually not run out of Life Support and offers more loot (who does not like loot, right?)

      Valkyr, which will grant you infinite revives with exactly zero risk, given that you run the proper Hysteria build

      Nova, which ups your damage output and halves the damage output of your foes

      The last spot can be filled with either Nyx for immense crowd control or with Trinity for infinite energy (which tends to be a nice thing to have, since you are a heavy caster comp anyway) and powerful healing when the shit really goes down (like Valkyr being killed in the 1 second gap between Hysterias)

      For weapons, Tysis is absolutely necessary. Anyone who thinks that four man Corrosive Projection does anything against level 100 mobs will be grimly surprised when he actually encounters them. Also, it is a waste of possible four Energy Siphons, which you will need anyway. The procs you gain from Tysis (seriously, run the punch through on it. That thing has 100% status proc chance, so you will mark the entire wave of enemies with it) will make sure that your main, high-damage weapons can actually deal with stuff. People may hate Boltor Prime for being OP, but I have yet to see anyone whine about it after an hour and a half of survival. Also, bows. These things have damage, actually enough of it to one-shot really high-leveled enemies. Their damage starts to cease at some point, of course, but slower than that of any other gun. A viable alternative for them is Latron Prime (or Wraith, but since it is an event wep, some people might not have it).

      In any case, team coordination is crucial. Do not go alone. It is as simple as that. Unless you are Valkyr, of course. That, and combining skills for stunlocks and energy preservation, will allow you to reach the dream mark of two hours. You will die at three hours anyway, but the feeling you get from it is great.

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    • Utheraptor the First wrote:

      For weapons, Tysis is absolutely necessary. Anyone who thinks that four man Corrosive Projection does anything agains level 100 mobs will be grimly surprised when he actually encounters them. Also, it is a waste of possible four Energy Siphons, which you will need anyway. The procs you gain from Tysis (seriously, run the punch through on it. That thing has 100% status proc chance, so you will mark the entire wave of enemies with it)

      Rhionhi  wrote:

      weapons like tysis or serro are essential to ccing/killing heavies almost instantly, dont have every person run BP/marelok/derpnikana

      And what's wrong with a Marelok with 99.99% status, 2.1m punch through, and 5000+ damage per shot?

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    • Marelok is great if you wish to combine both status and damage, but it has one great downfall and that is that it is not a purely elemental weapon, moreso that it has all three of the basic damage types, which means that there is a rather large chance that the proc won't be the one you want. Tysis is full corrosive, so this issue is not present here. That does not make Marelok a bad weapon though, it still rocks and is one of my favourites.

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    • NeithanDiniem wrote:
      82.114.244.141 wrote:
      NeithanDiniem wrote:

      You dont need maxed mods to do a T4, so do us all a favor and stop relying on stupid arguments. Teamwork and skill will always trump maxed mods and idiocy.

      Yup, sure, when u have like 300 hp and sheilds and doing zero damage, its completely okay. Im sorry, I didnt understand that. I'm gonna go and farm T4 with shitty unranked mods coz apparently, thats how pros like you are doing that.
      See that right there? thats you not taking the time to read. I didnt say unranked mods, I said you dont need MAXED mods. Nor did I say completely bare bone unranked warframe, like you seem to be stupidly implying.

      Clanmate and I just ran through 3 T4 missions without a sweat. I had unmaxed melee weapon and quite a few unmaxed mods, and so did the other guy. we both had under 600 HP nor had frames that are considered by the idiot "metas" out there as "necessary." Vor appeared in 2 of the missions and we had him down is less than a minute both times. Its called skill and being comfortable with how your frame works and how your weapons handle.

      Well, actually i was replying to OP with my post and he DOES need maxed mods coz  apparently he cant go past 30 min without R+QT cheap combo. I personally dont really care that much about maxed\not maxed mods as long as a person can do some killing and not die. And "meta" is complete shit lol. I agree here with you. Did Oberon + Banshee run the other day. Completely ok.

      Oh, and btw I wrote l2p\max mods which means that he needs to do 1 of those things to survive there.

      And I wrote about pros going without mods bcoz i just dislike the elitist shit you are talking about right now and dislike you, so it wasnt going to be an argument, just an angry comment.

      To the OP: I still advice to work on your mod setup and get some more expirience in T4s, you'll get there eventually.

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    • Baradiele wrote:
      I discussed of this with my friends. These mods are for expests...or for lucky ones...Quick Thinking in particular. We tested this combo even too much and come to the conclusion that this is almost the only way to effectively survive in T4 missions. In survival T4 it was needed 45 minutes of play to let this mod combo become almost useless. Now, it's useless after just 10 minutes. We had to bring a full squad of Valkyr to survive up to 37 minutes. No other frame made it with no matter what mods. Enemies just kills you too fast...something around 6 machine gun hits to kill a Rhino with maxed Iron Skin, Vitality, Redirection, Vigor, Flow and Quick Thinking. This is not fair. The DE is powering up enemies and nerfing all frames and mods. This game is starting to become a survival game instead of a TPS. At this point they could add a 1 second of invulnerability DURING dodges...making them effectively useful other than be just a "nice to see" move since, no matter how much you jump or dodge, if you do not have a solid object between you and an enemy it WILL hit you. The only chance for a enemy to miss you is that he is too far and using a machine gun...then they won't hit you...but just because of the spread of they're gun, not for they're aim.

      I can accept the low ammo on heavy weapons...but they are making the game almost impossible. Something that goes far more than having a good hard challenge...

      The game isn't balanced around endless survival/defense because of infinite scaling. I've done 1 hour of T4 survival and I've never used Rage/QT combo. Strategy/skill > facetanking with rage/QT.

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    • 82.114.244.141 wrote:

      And I wrote about pros going without mods bcoz i just dislike the elitist shit you are talking about right now and dislike you, so it wasnt going to be an argument, just an angry comment.

      So me encouraging teamwork within the group and getting skillful at the game aside from the argument that maxed mods are the only way to go that you originally started with is me being elitist, did I understand that right?

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    • Utheraptor the First wrote:
      Marelok, has one great downfall, and that is that it is not a purely elemental weapon, which means that there is a rather large chance that the proc won't be the one you want.

      Good point, I hadn't thought of that. You can partially circumvent this by using a build very high in corrosive and less in the others, but the danger is still there. With that taken into consideration you would need perhaps two shots to have a proc on average, which is still good considering its other strengths...

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    • It is still a god-tier weapon and definitely the second best secondary. You are right that you can play around its few weaknesses and make them rather small, but still, in the utter end-game every detail matters. Also, Marelok is actually fun to level up after you forma it, which Tysis is not, as it heavily underperforms in killing enemies, thus gaining less XP than Marelok which just straight facerolls everything under level 40 unranked.

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    • Rage build valkyr----- Srsly guys, just go get one

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    • VTOLv wrote:
      Rage build valkyr----- Srsly guys, just go get one

      I will second this. Best fun I have with Valkyr.

      If it wasn't clear, just get Valkyr, Rage, Vitality and Steel Fiber. Then  get a suitable melee weapon and get a Life Strike on it. Bingo, you're done.

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    • 92.107.52.67 wrote:

      Basically they wanted to change this combination from "PRETTY FUCKING OP" to "nice". But like always such changes just break a mechanic. I just tested its "Usefulness" on Mercury, after getting to the infamous 2HP mark a lvl4 Butcher was able to kill me in 4 hits( i have a 202 energy pool), which basically means, that this mod combination isn't even useful at the very beginning of the game.

      Even DE thinks that Rage + Quick Thinking should mean something to the community, but nerfing it in such a way isnt the right choice. This combo has always meant to be something like a godmode, but if you nerf god, whats left of it? Just increasing the efficiency of the combination also wouldnt be a good solution, because it wouldn't scale into lategame (and btw, those are some lategame mods). So why shouldn't DE just completely change the Mechanics on this Combo? They could actually make something like "after your health dropps below 3HP your energy gets drained and you gain 1second of damage immunity for every (x) Energy you had" instead of "balancing" it out.

      Bandwagon riders are annoying cause they all go on reddit and go "OMFG Lookz at muh Rage QT build so OP" and then it turns into "Awwww T_T" cause newb scrub doesn't know any other way to build.

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    • 82.114.244.141 wrote:
      Baradiele wrote:
      Rhionhi wrote:
      people go past an hour all the time. the ones to worry about are the ones that think 30 minutes is har,d or more hilariously, the ones who die vs vor. badly equipped, no coordination or teamwork.

      Never said it's impossible now to arrive and surpass 1 hour. Just sayng that I do not belive that is "WAAAAAY too easy". I personally cannot make it for 2 major reasons, I think:

      1) Skill, since I have almost no major mods maxed out and I tend to not search a wall to block the bullets I usually go Head-Down on the enemies...altough, when I start dyng like 3 times in 50 seconds, usually I revisit this strategy :P

      2) Teamwork. It is hard to find someone who actually plays WITH you (maybe I'm just unluky). Me and my friend can make up to 27 minutes with Oberon and Nekros...but we are just 2...

      Lastly, the coordination goes with teamwork...that it is hard to make as well.


      Wat r u? Casul? I'm doing duo t4's all the time with my friend coz randoms always do stupid things like "IMMA RHINO WITH IRON SKIN AND STOMP, IMMA GOD, I WILL WONDER OF AND DIE IN PAIN COZ IMMA FCKTARD". Its not easy coz its not intended to be. Its an "end game" content so do yourself a favour and l2p\max all mods needed for that. Or you could just go to appolodorus all the time ;D.

      Also, R + QT was OP as hell, glad they nerfed it.

      I see this bullshit in region cancer chat all the time. It's like Rhino everywhere. Crutch Frame has a place but you should be getting gud very fast.

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    • Y0L0 RIN0

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    • Honestly the only problem I had on t4 with zephyr and a team of random frames was that corrupted vor showed up and, because of my bows charge time and his constant teleporting,  he distracted us long enough that we ran out of oxygen.

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    • 119.224.31.44 wrote:
      Honestly the only problem I had on t4 with zephyr and a team of random frames was that corrupted vor showed up and, because of my bows charge time and his constant teleporting,  he distracted us long enough that we ran out of oxygen.

      again, valkyr

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    • Baradiele wrote:
      I discussed of this with my friends. These mods are for expests...or for lucky ones...Quick Thinking in particular. We tested this combo even too much and come to the conclusion that this is almost the only way to effectively survive in T4 missions. In survival T4 it was needed 45 minutes of play to let this mod combo become almost useless. Now, it's useless after just 10 minutes. We had to bring a full squad of Valkyr to survive up to 37 minutes. No other frame made it with no matter what mods. Enemies just kills you too fast...something around 6 machine gun hits to kill a Rhino with maxed Iron Skin, Vitality, Redirection, Vigor, Flow and Quick Thinking. This is not fair. The DE is powering up enemies and nerfing all frames and mods. This game is starting to become a survival game instead of a TPS. At this point they could add a 1 second of invulnerability DURING dodges...making them effectively useful other than be just a "nice to see" move since, no matter how much you jump or dodge, if you do not have a solid object between you and an enemy it WILL hit you. The only chance for a enemy to miss you is that he is too far and using a machine gun...then they won't hit you...but just because of the spread of they're gun, not for they're aim.

      I can accept the low ammo on heavy weapons...but they are making the game almost impossible. Something that goes far more than having a good hard challenge...

      T4 is endgame, right? You can't expect endgame to be easymode. 37 minutes is a decent amount of time for one run. This isn't WoW where you just become op enough to solo endgame content with sub-par gear, please don't try to make it like that.

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    • Baradiele wrote:
      I discussed of this with my friends. These mods are for expests...or for lucky ones...Quick Thinking in particular. We tested this combo even too much and come to the conclusion that this is almost the only way to effectively survive in T4 missions. In survival T4 it was needed 45 minutes of play to let this mod combo become almost useless. Now, it's useless after just 10 minutes. We had to bring a full squad of Valkyr to survive up to 37 minutes. No other frame made it with no matter what mods. Enemies just kills you too fast...something around 6 machine gun hits to kill a Rhino with maxed Iron Skin, Vitality, Redirection, Vigor, Flow and Quick Thinking. This is not fair. The DE is powering up enemies and nerfing all frames and mods. This game is starting to become a survival game instead of a TPS. At this point they could add a 1 second of invulnerability DURING dodges...making them effectively useful other than be just a "nice to see" move since, no matter how much you jump or dodge, if you do not have a solid object between you and an enemy it WILL hit you. The only chance for a enemy to miss you is that he is too far and using a machine gun...then they won't hit you...but just because of the spread of they're gun, not for they're aim.

      I can accept the low ammo on heavy weapons...but they are making the game almost impossible. Something that goes far more than having a good hard challenge...


      Funny, I'm mostly complaining about how easy it is up until 40+ mins where you need to start playing as a team. Warframe abilities, terrain obstacles, etc. are what you defend yourself with; stuff like Vitality + Steel Fiber or Quick Thinking just give you a buffer. Mostly, you want to use a combination of team with good CC and damage multipliers (say, for example, Nova/Nekros/Mirage/Trinity) and you can easily do 60 mins. Add 4 Corrosive Projections and it's quite doable to go 90 mins-120 mins provided Antimatter Drops are working right.

      And that's not the only option either; Nyx/Trinity can make enemies kill themselves, Ash's Blade Storm lasts up until level ~100 enemies and works even from then on, Rhino is a decent force multiplier, Mag plus Orokin Drones = dead enemies, etc. Point being, in extreme situations you don't rely on durability - enemy stats scale but you're a ninja! You're not supposed to brute force problems but solve them instead. Of course, you do need good gear and especially properly forma'd high end weapons with high ranked mods, but that's kinda the point; otherwise you couldn't use that stuff anywhere.

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    • Why in all your T4 teams is there no Fleeting Expert Mag????

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    • Because you are playing with uncoordinated teams, that's why...

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    • So where is your god now with new corrupted nullifiers?

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    • Mag?  Maybe when corrupted moas are about, not the shield drones...  Anyway, the real nerf here is that QT makes you auto stagger on being hit, making it nearly useless on its own.

      And yes, our durability needs a major buff to counteract all the new units and AI changes over the last three months.  They're not straight forward and brain dead anymore, so us having tiny health pools and no armor isn't legitimate anymore either.

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    • Mag, you say?

      Lolmag
      This is in T3S, with a nova, nekros and loki, all rank12+, 3 corrosive projections.

      The 0% damage is due to someone DCing and reconnecting just before extraction.

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    • KainDarkfire wrote:
      Mag?  Maybe when corrupted moas are about, not the shield drones...  Anyway, the real nerf here is that QT makes you auto stagger on being hit, making it nearly useless on its own.

      Is that an effect of QT? I always thought it was just a side-effect of being stuck at 2 HP. When anyone is at low HP (even enemies I think), they can get staggered.

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    • Baradiele wrote:
      I discussed of this with my friends. These mods are for expests...or for lucky ones...Quick Thinking in particular. We tested this combo even too much and come to the conclusion that this is almost the only way to effectively survive in T4 missions. In survival T4 it was needed 45 minutes of play to let this mod combo become almost useless. Now, it's useless after just 10 minutes. We had to bring a full squad of Valkyr to survive up to 37 minutes. No other frame made it with no matter what mods. Enemies just kills you too fast...something around 6 machine gun hits to kill a Rhino with maxed Iron Skin, Vitality, Redirection, Vigor, Flow and Quick Thinking. This is not fair. The DE is powering up enemies and nerfing all frames and mods. This game is starting to become a survival game instead of a TPS. At this point they could add a 1 second of invulnerability DURING dodges...making them effectively useful other than be just a "nice to see" move since, no matter how much you jump or dodge, if you do not have a solid object between you and an enemy it WILL hit you. The only chance for a enemy to miss you is that he is too far and using a machine gun...then they won't hit you...but just because of the spread of they're gun, not for they're aim.

      I can accept the low ammo on heavy weapons...but they are making the game almost impossible. Something that goes far more than having a good hard challenge...

      if u needed a full team of shitty valkyrs to survive till 37 u suck huge balls playing the game , delete and go to play with your barbie , this is too hard for you

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    • Voqualin wrote:
      KainDarkfire wrote:
      Mag?  Maybe when corrupted moas are about, not the shield drones...  Anyway, the real nerf here is that QT makes you auto stagger on being hit, making it nearly useless on its own.
      Is that an effect of QT? I always thought it was just a side-effect of being stuck at 2 HP. When anyone is at low HP (even enemies I think), they can get staggered.

      I've been dropped that low without being staggered many times before, it seems to be a QT related thing when it first activates, I haven't noticed a chain stagger effect either, you get a few seconds before staggering again, plenty of time to escape if you're not the only focus around. (Aggro seems to drop as well.)

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    • Seriously we are upset of a "god-mode" being removed or am I just misinterpreting? There are other ways to survive play around with the mods look to see what works better. Skill > god mode

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    • 190.176.236.197 wrote:
      Baradiele wrote:
      I discussed of this with my friends. These mods are for expests...or for lucky ones...Quick Thinking in particular. We tested this combo even too much and come to the conclusion that this is almost the only way to effectively survive in T4 missions. In survival T4 it was needed 45 minutes of play to let this mod combo become almost useless. Now, it's useless after just 10 minutes. We had to bring a full squad of Valkyr to survive up to 37 minutes. No other frame made it with no matter what mods. Enemies just kills you too fast...something around 6 machine gun hits to kill a Rhino with maxed Iron Skin, Vitality, Redirection, Vigor, Flow and Quick Thinking. This is not fair. The DE is powering up enemies and nerfing all frames and mods. This game is starting to become a survival game instead of a TPS. At this point they could add a 1 second of invulnerability DURING dodges...making them effectively useful other than be just a "nice to see" move since, no matter how much you jump or dodge, if you do not have a solid object between you and an enemy it WILL hit you. The only chance for a enemy to miss you is that he is too far and using a machine gun...then they won't hit you...but just because of the spread of they're gun, not for they're aim.

      I can accept the low ammo on heavy weapons...but they are making the game almost impossible. Something that goes far more than having a good hard challenge...

      if u needed a full team of shitty valkyrs to survive till 37 u suck huge balls playing the game , delete and go to play with your barbie , this is too hard for you

      Etiquette:
      1.Conventional requirements as to social behavior; proprieties of conduct as established in any class or community or for any occasion. 2. A prescribed or accepted code of usage in matters of ceremony, as at a court or in official or other formal observances. 3. The code of ethical behavior regarding professional practice or action among the members of a profession in their dealings with each other: Also you should capitalize the i in if and it is not u, it is you. The only thing you are insulting is human evolution by talking like a neanderthal.

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    • RabidScholar wrote:    The only thing you are insulting is human evolution by talking like a neanderthal.

      Don't insult the Neanderthals! (Though I do agree it is not right to rage at someone like that).

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    • Removing absolute invincibility is never a bad thing.

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    • Twilight053 wrote:
      Removing absolute invincibility is never a bad thing.

      u15.10 : RIP shield transference godmag.

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    • so if i play ash is it better to go with vitality and vigor or rage and quickthink

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    • If you're going to use rage just use vitality, vigor increase's shields and that will place a bigger buffer against rage. I've done a T4 interception with vitality being the only mod on ash (I was messing around with mods and I forgot i took them off) Seriously though all Ash needs is vitality.

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    • This is an emergency situation combo now, man. I use it now for my Valkyr survivals, just to survive long enough to cast Hysteria. I never used it with my second main warframe, Mesa, just because i generally rely on support in this type of content with her, and go for all out damage, but man, i can totally see this combo buying time to recast Shatter Shield, it's just that yea, without a good support you would not have a good energy flow for a high end on her anyways, so it's kinda pointless.

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    • RabidScholar wrote:
      190.176.236.197 wrote:
      Baradiele wrote:
      I discussed of this with my friends. These mods are for expests...or for lucky ones...Quick Thinking in particular. We tested this combo even too much and come to the conclusion that this is almost the only way to effectively survive in T4 missions. In survival T4 it was needed 45 minutes of play to let this mod combo become almost useless. Now, it's useless after just 10 minutes. We had to bring a full squad of Valkyr to survive up to 37 minutes. No other frame made it with no matter what mods. Enemies just kills you too fast...something around 6 machine gun hits to kill a Rhino with maxed Iron Skin, Vitality, Redirection, Vigor, Flow and Quick Thinking. This is not fair. The DE is powering up enemies and nerfing all frames and mods. This game is starting to become a survival game instead of a TPS. At this point they could add a 1 second of invulnerability DURING dodges...making them effectively useful other than be just a "nice to see" move since, no matter how much you jump or dodge, if you do not have a solid object between you and an enemy it WILL hit you. The only chance for a enemy to miss you is that he is too far and using a machine gun...then they won't hit you...but just because of the spread of they're gun, not for they're aim.

      I can accept the low ammo on heavy weapons...but they are making the game almost impossible. Something that goes far more than having a good hard challenge...

      if u needed a full team of shitty valkyrs to survive till 37 u suck huge balls playing the game , delete and go to play with your barbie , this is too hard for you
      Etiquette:

      1.Conventional requirements as to social behavior; proprieties of conduct as established in any class or community or for any occasion. 2. A prescribed or accepted code of usage in matters of ceremony, as at a court or in official or other formal observances. 3. The code of ethical behavior regarding professional practice or action among the members of a profession in their dealings with each other: Also you should capitalize the i in if and it is not u, it is you. The only thing you are insulting is human evolution by talking like a neanderthal.


      Quick, get the fire department, that shit's got to be positively roasting him alive!



      Seriously, though, I love e-peen wavers. They're so cute, thinking their words mean anything to anyone. I pity them for their sub-par inteligence, but otherwise them disregard them as actual human beings. They exist only in a perpetual state of ignorance and self0importance, and will eventually die out or will be actively hunted down and exterminated at some point in the far future.


      Now, back to spamming Oberon in T4 survival. because delicious Radiation procs.

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