^ You obviously don't know about the Swirling Tiger thing and the jump attack of the Dual Heat Swords. Also the fact that dual flame swords are a lot cooler than dual poisonous skin wrapped around bone....Think about it.
^ That's why you have sprint on so you can catch up to them. Also, Dual Heats are multiple damage. Dual Ichor is just poison. If you suck at catching up, try doing Sprint, Slide, Jump, then Ground Slam when close to the enemy, then keep doing your combos and doing the maneuver when needed. But it's smarter to defeat all enemies in a crowd when possible so you don't get a bunch of bullets in the back :)
The 2 main things DHS has going for them is the flame aoe (minor cc in a small area, minor damage) and a whopping 270 spin damage (mostly Slash). They also do 45 damage per swing, but have noticeably slower attack speed than Dual Ichor. Also, the majority of the damage is Slash, which is reduced by Ferrite Armor (Corrupted Gunners), Alloy Armor (Corrupted Lancers), and Robotics (Corrupted Moa).
Dual Ichor start with Toxin (easily modded for Corrosive or Corrosive+Cold for Void) and have a very high crit multiplier. Their spin attack is 210, but with the changes in Melee 2.0, the spin attack shares the same crit stats as normal swings. In other words, with only True Steel and Organ Shatter equipped, the spin attack has a 40% chance to deal 1197 damage! Again, that is with no base damage mods or elements, just crit chance and damage. Fully modded, I commonly see 20k crits on spin attacks on Ancients, even when I'm just modded for Viral damage.
For low levels, DHS *could* win out merely because of the consistent damage per hit. Against appropriate levels, 1 hit would be a guaranteed kill. Against the same level, there's potential for Dual Ichor to not consistently oneshot them (slightly lower base damage). However, as levels rise, Dual Ichor begins to shine more. Instead of taking 10 hits from DHS, you can generally expect 3-4 from Dual Ichor. Plus, as I said before, Dual Ichor are quite a bit faster, resulting in faster attacks, spins, and coptering.
My [very long] 2 cents...at least on damage output. Appearance-wise, still rooting Ichors, yo
I meant the Void because all 3 factions appear....Also, coptering is USELESS if you actually know how to parkour like a BOSS (Like me, not bragging because it's true). And, Dual Ichor have no AoE except for jump attacks (No procs just knockdown). Dual Heat Swords have a lot of AoE (with Swirling Tiger) Dual Heat Swords also look a lot cooler than "a pair of back bones". And, I AM aware that poison is better than fire, but also, Dual Ichor are a lot harder to obtain then Dual Heat Swords, like you can get 'em on your 2nd day of playing, especially because they don't require 6 mastery, unlike Ichor. And, modded correctly, Dual Heat Swords become BEAST.
Dual Ichors --using all maxed out mods below for a void build of Corrisive + Cold
Swirling Tiger, Pressure Poing, Fever Strike, Fury, Focus Energy, True Steel, Berserker, Spoiled Strike, North Wind = 1,134 DPS, and 937 Total Damage (((AND))) when you you are in a berserker buff it goes as high as 2,156 Damage Per second.
Dual Heat Swords --using all maxed out mods below also for a void build of Corrisve + Cold
Swirtling Tiger, Pressure Point, Fever Strike, Fury, Focus Energy, Jagged Edge Shocking Touch, Spoiled Strike, North Wind = 951 DPS and 961 Total Damage
Added Bonus...Coptoring is better with Dual Ichors than Dual Heat Swords....I am someone who COPTORS every where..and I mean everywhere....I never slide. I jump Coptor the map. Its a habit that helps me achieve the highest DPS.
Yeah...I directly addressed Void, and Ichors came out far on top. Coptering is far from useless, especially since getting from A to B in less than a second is nicer than spending 5 seconds in enemy fire to cross the same gap. Also, "knowing how to parkour like a boss" both sounds ridiculous and is just a fancy way of saying you can sprint and wallrun lol
The AoE Dual Ichor have is in their swings and in their spin attack. I didn't address the jump slam since comparing that to DHS' slam would make no sense. That's like comparing their crit stats. DHS have the same AoE, probably even with similar reach, as well as the slam. However, as I also said, the flame wall is rather small, does minimal damage (really only even noticeable against very low levels), and only provides minor cc if at all.
Also, this wasn't about difficulty to obtain. I know DHS is much easier to get, considering both rank requirements and resource cost. This was more about function. Aaaaaand, of the two, I do prefer how Dual Ichor look.
Really though, and this is something I definitely do stand behind, it comes down to preference. Use whichever you prefer, even if people tell you not to. This was just breaking down how the weapons function in game. I haven't used the DHS much (since before Melee 2.0, even), but I know how well the Ichor work. Knowing stats and how the game works can give a general idea of it, though.
Um, I actually parkour may way through the mission for the most part by using all maneuvers (and yes, rarely coptering), but I still always beat Loki in a footrace even if the Loki copters. So yeah, parkour is better (and a lot cooler).
Idk, the parkour system in this game could definitely use some work. Don't get me wrong, it's great, not it's not perfect. Well, no game will ever have a perfect (for me) anything, but you get what I'm saying. Anyways, I use it a lot too, but I mostly copter when I want to get somewhere really fast. For most missions (excluding Survival/Defense and sometimes others) I just run and/or slide. Rolling and crouching (as far as those count as "parkour" at least) I tend to use a whole lot in combat, though. It's a lot more fun that way.
tl;dr because I type too much: for me, coptering is for getting A-B really fast, parkour is for style, fun, and [sometimes] combat
Parkour is actually amazing for combat (unless you're using a weapon with Charge trigger type). It can be amazing. Like strafing the wall with a wall run while firing a machine gun or spamming a shotgun. Or running up the wall and jumping off while on then slamming the ground with your AoE status/knockdown, then running around stabbing everything in the back (if it's knockdown). Parkour is for the creative player. What I like to do is wallrun up the nearest wall then jump off and kick everything over with an aerial kick, then turn (still in air) and ground slam so I can stab enemies in the back and when they get up I repeat the process. If using Kogake instead of a flying kick I do the slide attack so I ragdoll them high into the air, then pursue the strongest one I kicked.
I have Swirling Tiger, and I tear through almost every enemy that crosses my path (With mostly Dancing Hunter) but I also whenever I feel the need do winding claws to set all enemies in a 10 meter radius on FIRE, then while they take DoT, I go work on another crowd! After I deal with that crowd (set on fire enemies that take longer than 4 seconds to kill) I go back to the crowd I assaulted before or attack a new crowd. Yeah. I obliterate all enemies that are unlucky enough to be seen by me.
Okay, I want to know which level the enemies you fight are. I've seen you post everywhere that DPS doesn't matter and that IPS balanced weapons are great and whatever.
If you're up against a lvl 80+ enemy the DHS are gonna be significantly slower to kill anything than the Ichors. Your perspective of this game is honestly ignorant. I understand that you say you want to use weapons that require "skill" to use, but just because a weapon is just flat-out better than another doesn't mean using it makes you skillless.
Warframe in the current state is still stupidly imbalanced. For the pick of the best weapon just overall is the Ichors. Not using corrupted mods is just going to gimp you hard, and not adding more elements is like pissing in the wind.
I don't get how this is supposed to be a disscussion? I don't see a proper argument anywhere. everyone that posted here is bragging about how good he/she/it is and that the everyone else is complete garbage.
If we are talking about purely on proccing then I'll say Dual Heat Sword wins because of it's slam attack, but let's not talk about that since it's only slam attack and only heat. Let's talk about proccing from the element combinations we modded for, ignoring the slam attack and no status mods (which means no event mods). Even if we use slam attack and we modded corrosive for void, the slam attack from DHS would not proc corrosive but only heat, which is pretty lame if you want that corrosive proc to reduce those armor from Corrupted Gunner and Corrupted Lancer (btw corrosive proc also works on alloy, but just not effectively as ferrite). You also got to know the fact that Dual Ichor is "faster" than DHS, faster the weapon the more you attack, the more you attack the higher the chance of proccing. And you can also slap in that true steel and berserker to triple the speed since it has high crit chance which DHS severly lacks. So Dual Ichor would win if we are gonna do this without the heat proc on DHS slam attack.
But looking at your post, if you are talking about the natural element dmg it does on the weapon, unmodded other than the stance, then like I said, Dual Heat Sword would win because of the slam attack.
So in conclusion, if you are talking about proccing combined elements, Dual Ichor wins, but if you are talking proccing the natural element dmg it does on the weapon, Dual Heat Sword wins.
First off, I fight a lot of corrupted. Also, corrupted mods aren't a good idea, because they limit your performance quite a bit. Also, I am not ignorant! I know very well the mechanics of the game, and always use them to my advantage. Also, Ichor require a bio lab. This brings them very far down the charts. And, I agree with the "no proper arguments". Everybody just thinks all weapons other than OP ones are garbage. So, you people are the ignorant ones.
Well even saying that corrupted limit your performace it's something!
Melee wise there are 2 corrupted Spoiled Strike and Corrupt Charge, the first I think is great for an already fast weapon like dual swords, anyway the debuff can be countered with a simple fury or berserker, giving them more power attack.
The second one I'm not a huge fan of channeling but even that can be countered with some efficiency mod as well.
FlyingReaper77 wrote: First off, I fight a lot of corrupted. Also, corrupted mods aren't a good idea, because they limit your performance quite a bit. Also, I am not ignorant! I know very well the mechanics of the game, and always use them to my advantage. Also, Ichor require a bio lab. This brings them very far down the charts. And, I agree with the "no proper arguments". Everybody just thinks all weapons other than OP ones are garbage. So, you people are the ignorant ones.
Corrupted mods are there to give a huge buff to your warframes and weapons with a negetive side effect to balance the buff. I like the ideas of corrupted mods because you have to think carefully on what and how you should use them, using them correctly you'll be slicing enemies like butter, though some mods I do find it utterly useless. And like what the guy said above you can counter the negetive buff with certain mods.
Anyways, I dont exactly get the topic here with all these post confusing me. What exactly are we talking about here? 1)Proccing the combined elements we modded on our weapon? 2)Proccing the element that the weapon naturally have? And when I read your last sentence "Let's see which is better in a Void run!", 3)do you mean which weapon is the best on Void runs?
1)Dual Ichor: Attacks faster, so doing more hits to proc 2)Dual Heat Sword: The jump slam attack + Swirling Tiger's Winding Claws 3)Dual Ichor: High Speed + High Crit Chance and Damage + Berserker = whole lot of Damage Per Second.
That doesn't mean Dual Heat Sword sucks, I would like the idea if you proc corrosive using Winding Clawson on a Corrupted Gunner then you proc heat using the last slam attack and get that 25% + 75% additional damage. That's a good combo right there.
Dual heats...They need a reskin. I dont know about you guys but I can clearly see that texture...juncture in the middle of the long blade. Also blade overall could use some overheated metal colors...Like, when you heat thin metal objects, they get some blue, purple and black colors at the heated end. Looks cool imo.
there is no logic to this discussion at all. dual heat cannot compare in any way to dual ichor, except spin attack damage. neither one is a very good status proc weapon (serro pls). and anyone too cheap to farm/buy corrupted mods/thinks they are bad because mathfails has no place in anything over lv30.
Rhionhi wrote: there is no logic to this discussion at all. dual heat cannot compare in any way to dual ichor, except spin attack damage. neither one is a very good status proc weapon (serro pls). and anyone too cheap to farm/buy corrupted mods/thinks they are bad because mathfails has no place in anything over lv30.
^ This has All of my Yes.
Although I don't like either, Dual Ichors > Dual Heat Swords.
Try taking those DHS to a 40+ min T4 survival and see who much of a beast they are. With dual ichors you can mow down groups of enemies fast and save ammo (especially if you have an Excalibur in your team) and I very much doubt that DHS can do that too.
FlyingReaper77 wrote: I was hoping I could get a good argument going but all that people said was "Dual Ichor nod contest". I hate the community.
Did you ever even read my first comment? I gave the reasoning for why Dual Ichor would win out and even stated that DHS could in fact "win" against certain levels. I even broke down each's advantages. The only thing you responded to in that is that you wanted it for Void (which I directly addressed) and that coptering is "useless" when you're "good." Besides, you wanted to know what people think, and they all thought the same thing in unison.
Meanwhile, your argument the whole time has been that you have "skill" and that DHS is better. There's been no reasoning other than that it can stun for a few moments with it's heat wave, but that won't always do much good farther along in Survivals or Defenses.
I mean no disrespect, but please, before you start generalizing all people as being incapable of presenting a good argument and saying you hate the community, at least have a good argument yourself. Btw, I'm not saying all of the community is good lol, but no community ever is all good.
FlyingReaper77 wrote: I was hoping I could get a good argument going but all that people said was "Dual Ichor nod contest". I hate the community.
Uh, the fact that you don't agree with the reasons that have been presented—higher DPS against most enemies, better elemental combinations, faster travel via coptering—doesn't somehow negate the fact that their reasons have, in fact, been presented. It's pretty clear that what you're actually upset about is the fact that almost no one agrees with your assessment.
Which, frankly, who cares about? If you like the Heat Swords, then use them. For myself, I prefer using the Dual Skana even though they're not nearly as effective as some other options. I like the way they look, end of story. I don't need to make up inane rules about not changing the element, or Corrupted mods not counting, to justify my choice.
If you're going to ask the community's opinion on something, don't throw a fit when your opinion is in the minority.
Just get both and decide then, its obvious that you dont have the Ichors. Also this whole "debate" has been beyond ridiculous. Basically the dual heat are great (sort-of) but only up to a certain lvl. You'd have a hard time past 35 for most builds, and at that point the only real use of the Dual Heat is the slam utility (which is slow and will get you killed).
The Dual Ichors on the other hand will help you survive longer in the Void and wont become usless as long as you can close the gap. They are simply high lvl weapons for high lvl enemies, you'd have few issues even around lvl 90-100.
I absolutely guarantee you, that if you brought Dual Heat to a T3 or Heaven forbid, a T4 you would get slain in 30 seconds Swirling Tiger or not. But at the end of the day, its up to you.
As someone who is currently using DHS and loves the insane slide damage, Dual Ichor is better. The higher attack speed is better for handling crowds in a fast, efficient way, the elemental possibilities are greater, and the lack of a stance slot on DHS and the stance slot match on Dual Ichor allows for more mods, further increasing the damage.
can we just ban FlyingReaper from making threads? all he ever does is make theads about weapons, then argues with everyone whenever they make a reasonable response. Dual Ichors do more damage, period. he knows this and continues to argue with us that DHS is better. he argued in his Secondary weapon thread that DPS doesnt matter. he argued in his Shotgun thread that boar prime was too hard to get and so he wouldnt settle for anything. all he does is argue in any thread he makes.
FlyingReaper, if your DHS is so much better than Ichors, tell us your build. i can prove that they are far worse than Dual Ichros.
For only status: DHS. BUT, with berserker, u have insanely high AS on ichors, more AS = more procs. Also, ichors have great damage and wreck stuff, but i see someone already told ya this. (AS-attack speed. Just sayin')