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  • Twilight053
    Twilight053 closed this thread because:
    Answered.
    12:33, December 31, 2014

    Refers to question, does it actually gives 20% extra damage or does enemy's armor stays at 0, disregarding the 20% surplus?

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    • I'm assuming it'll make it a negative? It really needs to be tested, truthfully

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    • 4 guys makes it give -20% armor on enemies, meaning you can deal that fancy 12k hit with mag's crush, but beware, when enemies have too much armor for example defence missions, they take so much damage that the engine cannot handle, making everything that is not armor ignore/serrated blade, deal 1 damage. broken. 30+30+30+30, ancients take 1 damage at all times, possiply not in lowest levels when they have low armor

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    • We tried a build with 4x corrosive projection with Frames and Guns that haven't got that much action lately due to their skills being useless against high armor targets. We had frames like Mag and Ember doing pretty weird results. 

      Mobs like Infested Chargers took more than the usual maximum damage from crush and World on Fire. At level 60 the Chargers took 2000+ daage from both skills. Also Grineer Lancers and Elite Lancers take insane ammount of damage(20000+ from crush at level 40 Lancer) until their level gets to around 60

      On the other hand with 4 Corrosive Projection Auras every skill and every gun that doesn't ignore armor does a really bad job at high armor enemies. Infested Ancients, Grineer Scorches and Troopers at least on mid level took only 1 damage per shot or skill. Also over  60 Elite Lancer started taking 1 damage per skill or shot.

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    • it's kinda unclear how does it works, kudos for your time, btw.

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    • its passive. if a grineer has 100 armor the first mod reduces it by 30%. that new base number is reduced by 30% and so on. they do not stack then apply, they apply passivly one by one, as far as i can tell. you end up with roughly 24% of their original armor when 4 mods are used.

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    • its the same deal with the infested impedence artifact, it reduces their speed up to a max of around 24% of their original speed when 4 are used.

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    • Whaaaat, that's lame. Thanks for your time, though.

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    • well it may be lame but going against grineer that only have 24% of the armor they originaly would have is still better then having 300 armor or so lol.

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    • Did some research on the matter of this issue and posted the same thing on the official forums:

      Let's take a scenario of both level 40 Grineer Trooper and level 40 Grineer Elite Lancer

      Warframe wikia had a pretty good formula for damage calculations

      Armor Mitigation = 100 / ((base armor + base armor * .01 * (current level - base level) ^ 1.40) + 100)

      Both Grineer Trooper and Elite Lancer have the same base armor 200. Again taken from wikia. 

      Base level of Trooper is 1 and Elite lancer is 20

      The mitigation value of both mobs without armor altering auras:

      Grineer Trooper level 40:

      Armor Mitigation = 100 / ((200 + 200 * .01 * (40 - 1) ^ 1.40) + 100)

      =0.1568

      Grineer Elite Lancer level 40

      Armor Mitigation = 100 / ((200 + 200 * .01 * (40 - 20) ^ 1.40) + 100)

      =0.2311

      Level 40 Grineer Elite Lancer takes ~23% damage from any source that would go through armor mitigation calculations. A Grineer Trooper on the other hand only ~16%.

      The mitigation value of both mobs with 4 corrosive Projection auras:

      Grineer Trooper level 40:

      Armor Mitigation = 100 / ((-40 + -40 * .01 * (40 - 1) ^ 1.40) + 100)

      =-13.2

      Grineer Elite Lancer level 40:

      Armor Mitigation = 100 / ((-40 + -40 * .01 * (40 - 20) ^ 1.40) + 100)

      =2.986

      The damage Grineer Trooper takes is -1320%, but since this game doesn't deal with damage numbers smaller than 1 it only gives 1 damage to the Trooper. A Mag's Crush that should do 157 damage is down to 1

      Poor Grineer Elite Lancer gets shafted at this point and he is taking 298.6% damage from all sources that should be reduced by armor. Yes... that is 522 damage to the target from each tick from Banshee's Sound Quake.

      When we play a few waves further and both Troopers and Elite Lancers are now level 60. Same base armor and base level just the enemy level gets up by 20.

      Without Corrosive Projections:

      Grineer Trooper level 60:

      Armor Mitigation = 100 / ((200 + 200 * .01 * (60 - 1) ^ 1.40) + 100)

      =0.1108

      Grineer Elite Lancer level 60

      Armor Mitigation = 100 / ((200 + 200 * .01 * (60 - 20) ^ 1.40) + 100)

      =0.1539

      The level 60 Grineer Trooper takes 11% of the damage from armor mitigated targets. A Shot from Vulkar that would do 125 damage now does 14 damage.

      The Grineer Elite Lancer takes 15.4% damage and the same Vulkar hits him for 17 points of damage.

      With the Auras:

      Grineer Trooper level 60:

      Armor Mitigation = 100 / ((-40 + -40 * .01 * (60 - 1) ^ 1.40) + 100)

      =-1.65

      Grineer Elite Lancer level 60:

      Armor Mitigation = 100 / ((-40 + -40 * .01 * (60 - 20) ^ 1.40) + 100)

      =-10.02

      Both mobs are now taking negative amounts of damage and thus only take the minimum 1 damage. The Vulkar, that would've hit the targets for 14 or 17 damage, now does 1 damage.

      Anything with high enough difference between their current level and base level and with high armor value will become almost immune to mitigated damage.

      TL;DR:

      When using 4 Corrosive Projections, armor mitigation calculation on high level and armor targets gives out negative damage values which results in 1 damage hits.

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    • Dammit it seemed to color my text with grey color. Grey text on grey background FML.

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    • ^people have tested this in game, serious players too. they havent come up with raw numbers but its around what i said, they still have 24% of the armor they originally had.

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    • ^Feel free to invite 3 friends and all use corrosive projection. The results should speak for itself. That's what I did when I got my 1 damage results.

      And yes if one player can spare some mod points and put in a smaller aura you can go with 3x30 and one 10% corrosive projection and see Ancients take full damage from stuff that shouldn't even dent em at 100+ levels. That way also they don't bug when their armor goes negative

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    • ^your "results" dont make any sense, you said that the vulkar's damage reduces to 1 damage? wouldnt corrosive projection INCREASE the damage? 

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    • ^ It does make sense when you know that the game rounds all <1 damage to the smallest positive value. When you divide a positive damage number with a negative number from armor calculations the result is a negative number. And since anything negative is a smaller value than 1...

      Please, try it out yourself! Get some friends to join you and put 4x maxed corrosive Projections. Guys like you that insists on something that they've only read on wiki and haven't tried it out themself are the thing that stands in the way of this negative armor value bug from ever getting fixed. 

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    • your saying that corrosive projection REDUCES THE DAMAGE TO LESS THEN ONE. that is incorrect, as damage dealt to the enemy would increase with the decrease of armor. 

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    • Darth, stop obsessing over the wording of the aura and look at it mathematically. as the other guy said, try it out yourself. The math makes sense. DE needs to fix it lol

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    • Darthmufin wrote:
      ^people have tested this in game, serious players too. they havent come up with raw numbers but its around what i said, they still have 24% of the armor they originally had.

      Seems the confusion here is linked to the fact that Corrosive Projection does not stack multiplicatively anymore. Those tests were run before it was changed. It now stacks additively which is how it gives you 120% and why it reduces damage the way that other contributor said.

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    • well, i have tested it and when i shoot an enemy they don't gain health. so they don't have -20 armor.

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    • Darthmufin wrote:
      well, i have tested it and when i shoot an enemy they don't gain health. so they don't have -20 armor.

      I don't recall anyone saying they do gain health. See that user's summary again:

      "When using 4 Corrosive Projections, armor mitigation calculation on high level and armor targets gives out negative damage values which results in 1 damage hits."

      "^ It does make sense when you know that the game rounds all <1 damage to the smallest positive value. When you divide a positive damage number with a negative number from armor calculations the result is a negative number. And since anything negative is a smaller value than 1..."

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    • With 120% reduction If you will find mob with 500 current armor you can crash the game by forcing it to do division by zero ;D

      Mobs with armor bellow 500 suffer huge damage boost on them.

      Mobs with armor above 500 will receive only 1 damage from all no armore ignore sources.

      I reported about that right after got it on event, but they still not fixed it ...


      You must stack total 100% armor reduction among all playes like in example i do with my m8's:

      30+30+30+10. In such combination all mobs on eny lvl have no damage reduction from armor.

      Cheers

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    • Darthmufin wrote:
      its the same deal with the infested impedence artifact, it reduces their speed up to a max of around 24% of their original speed when 4 are used.

      I'm not entirely sure of this.  We did a test a couple days ago running 2x30% 1x15% 1x25% for a total of 100.  One of the group members brought the Soma and had said his headshot damage was the same from round 1 to round 65, at 65 our 4th dropped out.  The numbers after that were progressively smaller, and weren't consistant.   Although not difinitive, it deserves a real testing run as we were just trying to test it with shield polarize and energy vampire, which scaled with the enemy so it's something I'm going to have to go back to the numbers and compare results to the math and see what I find.

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    • why not 25 x 25 x 25 x25

      that way you all get a LOT but not all mod slots but no one is forced to use a poopy amount

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    • Has anyone tested this since the recent update?

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    • 0.7 * 0.7 * 0.7 * 0.7 = 0.2401.

      The 24% ammount is correct more or less.

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    • First, this thread is veeeeeeeery old.


      Second, now they stack additively, so 120% armor reduction is correct.

      Third, DE have fixed this by capping armor reduction at 100%.

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    • Thank the maker!

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    • last time i read the mechanics the devs released they showed a hard cap of 75% reduction on armor, same as power efficiency, so running 4 corrosive projections is a waste just like running 90% power efficiency and no bline rage, ur wasting points

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    • 74.37.196.131 wrote:
      last time i read the mechanics the devs released they showed a hard cap of 75% reduction on armor


      You have Citation for this? I don't recall seeing this or have even heard of this before.

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    • There's no hard cap, as this is an old answered thread I'm closing this.

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