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  • Hi Warframe community!

    Apologies that I was not able to jump in sooner on this topic. I am considering this post to be a continuation of the conversation found here. It’s been great to see voices from both the editors as well as the Discussions users represented there. I’ll use sections to both address specific areas of feedback/concern and give some updates on what’s coming up for Discussions.

    If you have the Warframe app installed, be sure to update to the latest version that becomes available this week for both Android and iOS!

    Moderation

    As you have seen, in the web version of Discussions there are a few more moderation tools than currently in the app. Mainly the ability to see “reported” content and take action on it. These functions will be added to the app as time goes on. However, also note that the “mobile web” layout (as seen on a phone’s web browser) has all the same options as desktop. So moderating from a phone is quite possible.

    I do suggest that the admin team consider some of the “app users” who are interested in the Discussions Moderator role. Especially if no one from the editing community is going to take on those duties. Wikia can help review reporting logs to identify and review good candidates, but I see some have expressed interest already. This method has worked well on Wookieepdia, Nukapedia, and Pokemon Wiki — all of which have recently promoted moderators who got their start using the app.

    I know there is some concern about doing this, since Discussions Moderators also have power in Forum, Wall, Comments and Chat. But it’s quite easy to ask a “from the app” moderator to simply not use their power in those features, and they would of course be demoted if they violate that agreement. You can start by assuming good faith, in this way. There’s even a user on Elder Scrolls who got their start in the app and has now become a prolific editor!

    Moderators still need to be connected to the admin team as well, since mods cannot block users. We’re now working to build better connections between the two sections of the community (see below for more) so the separation will start to become less severe.

    Styling/design

    Mobile is quickly becoming the primary way that users find and access Wikia content. Not just apps, but on mobile web as well. So the Discussions design has been on a “mobile-first” path. That does not mean that desktop is disregarded, but we need to start with mobile and then expand out. After all, it’s easier to start smaller and then add things, rather than start big and then figure out what to remove. The desktop layout will continue to evolve and we’ll be looking at adding further customization options. In the near term this includes the ability to edit the community avatar image (square) and the wider header image. Some theme adjustment is possible via Theme Designer now. We would like to hear more about what specifically you would want to customize.

    Making connections

    ArcticProfile

    Starting tomorrow, you’ll begin to see a user’s Discussions post count noted on the wiki profile masthead. See screen shot below! When the count is more than zero, it will be linked to the list of the user’s Discussions posts and replies (so here for the example of ArcticEngie).

    We can also enable a footer module on each article page, that showcases Trending discussions. Check out any page on Marvel Database or DC Database for examples. This will showcase Discussions to web visitors and should result in more participation from web visitors.

    Please note that this module will replace the Forum module that sometimes appears on articles if the Forum’s “topics” function is being used. Let me know if you would like this module enabled for Warframe, it can be enabled at any time. In the future, the module’s content will become more specific to individual articles, when there are related discussions.

    Structure

    On Thursday we expect to release some new functionality for Discussions — Discussion categories. These will function like boards in the Forum, but also as a filter for reading. Categories can be set up by admins via the desktop/web version. But they will be visible to all users, as long as they have the most recent app version. Users will have to choose a category before posting anything.

    This should bring a much more organized and forum-like feeling to Discussions. So those of you who are apprehensive about continuing use of the feature, I urge you to reassess in a few weeks and see how things are progressing once categories are in place.

    The future

    I should also be very clear about something that was mention in my initial visit a few months back — the current Forum feature is eventually going to be retired, and its content will be migrated to Discussions. So the idea of “merging” that has been suggested is quite real.

    Discussions has some more growing to do before it’s ready for this merger, so don’t worry, it’s not happening “tomorrow” or anything. But the Forum’s time is coming to a close, and everyone should be prepared for Discussions to take over as the main area for conversational interaction. I am sure you have noticed Forum is difficult to use on mobile devices, and none of its content shows up in Search properly. These are just two of its bigger problems, it has plenty of small bugs and deeper flaws.

    There’s no specific timeline for when the Forum migration will come to Warframe, but we’ll be in touch well beforehand to work directly with you and determine “what goes where” and such. I am sure this subject brings up lots of questions, and all will be answered before any migration work gets started. We’ll be migrating lots of smaller communities’ Forums before we get to Warframe.

    So where does that leave things?

    Exactly how Discussions is used is for this community — the whole community — to decide. As some other users have pointed out, there’s quite a lot of people using Discussions and this should not be discounted. It’s clearly already proving itself as way to GROW this community. But you might have to revisit some assumptions and processes to take full advantage of that.

    I strongly advise that you make the Discussions users a part of whatever decisions are made about rules and policies and such. Imposing things that are only decided by the editors will only deepen divided and cause resentment. I know that all of you can work together to help truly make this one community. It’s challenging and even scary, but the benefits in the long term should be clear — a thriving group of people that make the Warframe Wiki the best place on the internet for Warframe fans, no matter how you get online to see it.

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    • Oh, and please feel free to ask follow-up questions, etc. I will be happy to answer.

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    • Wow! That's a lot of great news/information! Thanks for keeping everyone up to speed on what's going on and what the future brings!

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    • Thanks for the in-depth reply, no hard feelings about its latency <3

      When I get home tonight I'll revisit some of our past discussions and see what tangible steps we can take to move forward.

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    • Still bound to try to sign in for whole eternity </3

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    • DaExile wrote:
      Still bound to try to sign in for whole eternity </3

      I noticed your posts about sign-in troubles on the other thread. It's the same login credentials whether you're using a desktop/laptop, the browser on your phone, or the mobile app. Your logged-in state should persist when going from the wiki to /d. We don't explicitly support Opera but it should work fine in this regard. If you can send in a report to Special:Contact with specific details I'm sure we can figure out the issue.

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    • Thanks for reassuring us discussion users. I also like the idea of the community getting a say in what happens. I would inquire as to how that will be done though.

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    • Will discuss adapt overtime to be somewhat like forums at some point? For example, trading isn't tolerated on mobile, yet on desktop (I've heard that they do have this) it seems that they have a section for trading.

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    • Hello! Thank you for your reply, just had a query! Also yay im in a screenshot!

      If you are free, can you clarify and/or further explain a few concerns listed?

      Firstly, the app differences? I'm not sure what you mean, we've had the identical reporting system since launch unless I am mistaken for something else excluding that the app has advertisements and no option to disable full-page ads which pop up every 15 mins give or take.

      Secondly, although its a little further into the future, can we expect the same necessary moderation tools that we have within the forums post-merge?

      Thirdly, can we expect some sort of CSS or JS to be carried over to the desktop client (at minimum at least, mobile would be nice, however I'm not sure any of us have Mobile web development experience under our belts)? I mean, it clearly works with CSS however we seem to be unable to find where exactly we can alter this, even something as simple as the header image, I wouldn't think three separate styles would look good for consistencies sake

      Fourthly, is an API in thoughts for later development? It would be quite useful but thats more a personal request.

      Lastly, is there any sort of dev feed we can see over patch history that is visible to external users? It was quite nice a mod icon was added sneakily so was just curious if we are missing out on anything we've not yet realised!

      Many thanks for your check in none the less! Apologies if this isn't really the right stage to voice concerns and queries, however it just seems like you are reminding us of what we already have :)

      Hoping for a reply soon! Many thanks for not leaving us in the dark with this once more

      Edit: I looked it over once more quite some time later and I must say that I am quite disheartened that it seems our initial discussion regarding moderator roles almost seems not to register as the suggestion listed was to throw more moderators at the issue we originally brought this up and not only that, has given a few the wrong impression as to now awaiting moderation placement

      As for the "keep to the app", this is still further from our initial issues, which I believe to already have been discussed within the first thread.

      I wholeheartedly hope this was not a boiler plate reply we would really like some input on the issues raised as to the current condition of use /d/ is residing within

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    • Here are some of my thoughts on this. Regardless of what happens people will still ask ridiculous questions, while this platform does make conversation lively as well. If we were to implement trading into here or anything else, we need the ability to add new sections for only those certain topics.

      @Engie's Topics: Number 2 is of concern as well. Theses could be spammed easily though I haven't seen it happen just yet on here.

      Number 3 is probably the most concerned item for me. I absolutely despise Mobile. I don't want to have to scroll down anything, it's bad enough our pages isn't universal, but it also isn't exactly possible for us to do that. Anyhow, I prefer Desktop elements regardless, it's better and faster.

      Interestingly, the application isn't too bad itself compared to Mobile. It is a bit more convenient. The applications can help me stay up to date with users that need questions answered as well.

      I like to ask if we could still follow or track them as we do in Forums. In case we need to come back to look at them or save them if they have useful information and if any other questions should be asked should they not be a top discussion already.

      I already got to enjoy a bit of discussion in it and it has only been a few days with this thing already blooming. This might not be too bad and maybe better if we can get a few more things to work just as it did in forums.

      Edit Again: I believe it's insane some people have almost 2k posts or 1k posts already. Don't you think this is getting a bit out of hand?

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    • The Bomb Tastic wrote:
      Will discuss adapt overtime to be somewhat like forums at some point? For example, trading isn't tolerated on mobile, yet on desktop (I've heard that they do have this) it seems that they have a section for trading.

      In terms of what type of content is allowed, and where, that is totally up to this community to decide.

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    • No one should feel left in the dark! Sometimes big messages are boilerplate but we can always answer individual and community-specific questions. I crafted the original post after reading over the conversations both here and in Discussions.

      ArcticEngie wrote:
      Firstly, the app differences? I'm not sure what you mean, we've had the identical reporting system since launch unless I am mistaken for something else excluding that the app has advertisements and no option to disable full-page ads which pop up every 15 mins give or take.

      In the apps, admins/mods can see and delete reported content, but at this time they can't validate reported content (i.e. "clear" the report without deleting it) or see the name(s) of the user(s) who made the report. Both of those things are possible on the web version. So that's the moderation difference I spoke about.


      ArcticEngie wrote:
      Secondly, although its a little further into the future, can we expect the same necessary moderation tools that we have within the forums post-merge?

      Excellent question! I will run down the Forum menu items shown in your screen shot.

      • Edit = right now only staff can edit all posts, and we'll only do this rarely (for Terms of Use issues). If it's truly necessary to edit a post rather than delete it, please contact staff and we can do that. We'll be adding the option for admins to edit posts in the future, but we're waiting until we've added "edited by" indicators, so that users know when their post has been edited, to avoid confusion. Authors can edit their own post, but only within the first 24 hours.
      • History = As you may know, Discussions is not built on MediaWiki, so there is no "native" versioning/diff functionality to leverage. Right now we don't have any plans to make past versions of edited posts available to view, but those are logged in our database. If knowledge of a past version of a post is truly critical to resolve something, you can contact staff.
      • Remove = The 'delete' option is the equivalent of this. Deleted content is still visible to mods and admins, in both the main post list and in a specific user's page showing all their posts.
      • Highlight = We'll be rebuilding the onsite Notifications system (in the global nav) in the future and it's not yet determined what methods there will be to call attention to a specific post. We don't have any plans to add a "sticky" function at this time. The Guidelines are customizable, and can be accessed any time in both the app and on the web, and those are presented to every new user before making their first post or reply. When categories become available (next week...there was a slight delay) you may want to create a News/Announcement category and just be sure to keep that clear of posts that don't belong there.
      • Close = the 'lock post' option is the equivalent of this
      • Move = admins and mods are able to move posts from one category to another


      ArcticEngie wrote:
      Thirdly, can we expect some sort of CSS or JS to be carried over to the desktop client (at minimum at least, mobile would be nice, however I'm not sure any of us have Mobile web development experience under our belts)? I mean, it clearly works with CSS however we seem to be unable to find where exactly we can alter this, even something as simple as the header image, I wouldn't think three separate styles would look good for consistencies sake

      Admins will gain the ability to update the square community avatar image and the header image in the next week or two. The help page has been updated with the specs for those images if someone wants to begin selecting and preparing them. We don't plan to allow the admin-managed CSS and JS from the wiki to carry over to the Discussions pages. One reason is that the Discussions pages are fully responsive. Take the window on your desktop and shrink it down to "phone" size and shape, and you'll see that it changes to the mobile web layout. This is standard web design these days, but is also fairly complex. The Discussions pages, like the mobile web article pages, are also constructed (code-wise) differently than the desktop article pages. They use Ember with a NodeJS back end (which may or may not be meaningful to those reading this, but it's a technical detail for those who are curious). As I said in my original post -- some theme adjustment is possible via Theme Designer now. We would like to hear more about what specifically you would want to customize, to take that into consideration for future customization options.

      ArcticEngie wrote:
      Fourthly, is an API in thoughts for later development? It would be quite useful but thats more a personal request.


      The entire Discussions feature is actually manifested via an API. That's one of the ways it's able to exist both on web and in the app rather seamlessly. As Wikia continues to evolve, most features we develop will work like that -- a feature is standalone and communicates with other features via APIs. This allows for much more flexible and fast development. We'll have a staff blog about this type of system architecture coming soon, for those who are interested.

      Some of our volunteer developers are working on some things that leverage the API, for both spam detection and other ways of monitoring Discussions activity. We look forward to talking more about those soon! We are also cleaning up the API documentation. If you (or others) are interested in working with the API, please let me know and I'll make a note of it and can follow up with some details in the future (not quite sure when). I am interested to hear what you would like to do.


      ArcticEngie wrote:
      Lastly, is there any sort of dev feed we can see over patch history that is visible to external users? It was quite nice a mod icon was added sneakily so was just curious if we are missing out on anything we've not yet realised!

      The Technical Updates blog on Community Cenrtal is the best place to get news on the latest updates. There is a post that coincides with each Tuesday and Thursday code release. App release notes for the latest versions are also linked on every blog post (app updates happen roughly once a month).

      ArcticEngie wrote:
      I am quite disheartened that it seems our initial discussion regarding moderator roles almost seems not to register as the suggestion listed was to throw more moderators at the issue we originally brought this up and not only that, has given a few the wrong impression as to now awaiting moderation placement As for the "keep to the app", this is still further from our initial issues, which I believe to already have been discussed within the first thread.

      Apologies if some of the concerns were not sufficiently addressed. Perhaps you can restate them as succinct questions/statements now, to make sure I am clear? And I will answer as best I can. I certainly did not mean to give any user the impression that mod rights could be granted without going through an approval process. But I do want to encourage the admin team to have an open mind and be willing to adjust the process a little bit, since Discussions is a new type of contribution. Hopefully with the addition of the Discussions post count to the wiki profile, it's a little easier to see where and how much those users are active. And I certainly encourage Discussions users to start exploring wiki editing by filling out your wiki profile page, to help the editors know more about who you are.

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    • AdmiralRegis wrote: Number 3 is probably the most concerned item for me. I absolutely despise Mobile. I don't want to have to scroll down anything, it's bad enough our pages isn't universal, but it also isn't exactly possible for us to do that. Anyhow, I prefer Desktop elements regardless, it's better and faster.

      Interestingly, the application isn't too bad itself compared to Mobile. It is a bit more convenient. The applications can help me stay up to date with users that need questions answered as well.

      It's interesting that you dislike mobile (I assume you mean using the mobile browser) but find the app convenient. We do aim to accommodate those who prefer one mobile experience over the other, by making both as good as possible.

      There is one fact that we all must accept, however. Mobile (whether on web or apps) is quickly becoming the way that the majority of users are accessing Wikia. Some of us are lucky to have both a standard computer and a smartphone, but many (especially in the developing world) only use smartphones to access the internet. Mobile users are a fact of life and their experience needs to be considered. That's why Discussions started its life in the apps, and it's also one of the reasons that content portability continues to be a focus for Wikia. Mobile users will be how your community continues to grow in the future.

      AdmiralRegis wrote:

      I like to ask if we could still follow or track them as we do in Forums. In case we need to come back to look at them or save them if they have useful information and if any other questions should be asked should they not be a top discussion already.

      We will definitely be adding the ability to follow posts, it's one of the next big things that will be added (no exact release date at the moment). For now, notifications (email starting next week, and push notifications in the app) are only sent to post authors when they get upvotes and replies.

      AdmiralRegis wrote: I already got to enjoy a bit of discussion in it and its only been a few days with this thing already blooming. This might not be too bad and maybe better if we can get a more things to work just as it did in forums.

      Edit Again: I believe it's insane some people have almost 2k posts or 1k posts already. Don't you think this is getting a bit out of hand?

      Again this is an interesting contradiction :) What's alarming about users with so many posts? They are clearly engaged and keep coming back. Our data shows the apps with Discussions enabled see a much higher rate of people coming back often, not just to discuss but also to read articles. Remember, they are dedicated fans who chose to download the Warframe app and chose to create an account so they could participate. If you are searching for new editors, this is a great place to start recruiting!

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    • Many thanks for your reply BertH! I won't quote the post for the interest of space

      Firstly, ah I see, I was not sure that would've been a significant issue given the multitude of issues we currently have but I see how that could get annoying and/or waste time, many thanks for the clarity! I cannot say I have encountered this as myself and the other moderator do not use the app over having no intrinsic need to emulate a mobile device to use. (As after all, we are a desktop based community, won't go over this further as we've brought it up each and every time mobile features are getting pushed to us.)

      Also on this subject I'd like to also agree with Regis that the current mobile is a major dislike from my point of view and likely to some of the other staff when using a desktop to access the site, I'll go into this further in Q.3

      Secondly, I highly doubt calling home for a /d/ thread where there exists 10,000 posts as of writing to have a post corrected for rule and forum moderation is an efficient way to do this, excluding the fact when faced with a locked or valid topic awaiting correction for violation of our own community rules it would have surely (to no offence to the busy support staff) have gone out of post circulation retaining its ill mannered gestures otherwise slandering a perfectly good post whilst we are helpless to either allow the content to exist whilst or to delete it in question (which the user would also not be aware as to why said post was deleted as we have no way to contact them nor give a deletion reason in the usual dialog we have within the Wikia), there is no win-win situation without this other than to leave it be, lock it from replies reacting to the issue or to delete it and leave the offending user none the wiser as to why their post was deleted. Are you able to give us any remotely close to a date/month to expect this to be implemented? Giving a reason as to why at the end

      I'm also unsure as to why highlighting threads seems to be a no on your end (Even within Reddit and Twitter which /d/ seems to be a hybrid between they both utilise highlighting as an essential part of their services), there are countless reasons why this is useful to portray current issues, updated meta subjects or even updates to the main build of Warframe itself, can we at least expect this to return when the forums become "merged"?

      Thirdly, the CSS and JS, I can expect the CSS and JS to be locked up for mobile, it pretty much already is, but I was referring to the PC /d/ as I had assumed that the ill fitting UI was a temporary measure (or at least I both hope and remember this being a temporary site to access /d/ within a desktop environment as mentioned within your first visit in chat)

      Fourthly, Many thanks for an honest answer on this, I'll give you a shout when I become free enough to delve into this

      Fifthly, bookmarked for later, thanks!

      And as a final reply, I am afraid that some users have had that view upon the initial post, it didn't help that it was advertised as a /d/ post when we initially kept this internal for your reply not to give people the wrong idea before we had come to a conclusion, but no hard feelings, just happy to get a reply :)

      But anyhow to the final issue raised, without any sort of segregated moderation role that we can use for /d/ (which was raised in the initial post) it makes an already alien environment incredibly hostile to seek active and guideline following users out for a position, we have had to recruit a moderator that had experience within our Wikia Terms of use but not within /d/ to moderate /d/ simply due to that we have no separation within the roles, it is fine to ask us to simply tell them not to use their powers elsewhere, but if that is the case we have Chat moderator specifically for this between the chat and Wikia

      Alongside this, if it was not already incredibly disheartening to find that despite our best efforts, not only was it the best course of action was to opt out of Wikia Discussions entirely due to its incomplete state but to find that also all of the solutions we had proposed to be entirely ignored. We were not actually given any sort of follow up as to whom to contact on a unanimous community decision to disable /d/ until the kinks have been worked out to make it an acceptable means for community interaction with suitable moderation aspects. Or as per request as a direct question as follows: As we are still faced with exactly the same issues, where/whom may we contact to opt out of the discussions beta until the aforementioned issues are resolved/there is a final polish within /d/?

      Many thanks for your reply and hoping for another soon

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    • BertH wrote: I certainly did not mean to give any user the impression that mod rights could be granted without going through an approval process. But I do want to encourage the admin team to have an open mind and be willing to adjust the process a little bit, since Discussions is a new type of contribution. Hopefully with the addition of the Discussions post count to the wiki profile, it's a little easier to see where and how much those users are active. And I certainly encourage Discussions users to start exploring wiki editing by filling out your wiki profile page, to help the editors know more about who you are.

      ArcticEngie wrote: But anyhow to the final issue raised, without any sort of segregated moderation role that we can use for /d/ (which was raised in the initial post) it makes an already alien environment incredibly hostile to seek active and guideline following users out for a position, we have had to recruit a moderator that had experience within our Wikia Terms of use but not within /d/ to moderate /d/ simply due to that we have no separation within the roles, it is fine to ask us to simply tell them not to use their powers elsewhere, but if that is the case we have Chat moderator specifically for this between the chat and Wikia

      I think another thorn in our side with this is that many of the candidates aren't really moderator material. From the three or four that have applied and I've looked into their history, they were prone to being baited into flame wars and generally lacked the moderation skills to keep a situation calm without having any powers to back themselves. This would lead me to the conclusion that they would lean too heavily on their new-found powers and possibly aggravate current situations. The fragile state of the app wouldn't help this situation due to lack of history, logs, warning messages, etc. (as mentioned by Engie).

      The obvious solution is mentor-ship for these members. On the main wiki, I love finding people who come to me for help and mentoring these users on how to handle a heated situation, learning how to code, etc.. However, with /d/, it's more like "Hey you, can you go colonize America while I sit back here in Europe? Good luck!" Which means you'll want somebody who's already equipped for the job since it's hard to mentor somebody from such a (metaphorical) distance.

      Ironically, throughout this whole process I've been mentoring Engie and allowing her to be the forward voice while I stepped back and empowered her to handle it, of which I think she's done a fabulous job thus far. (Ok let's be honest, I was lazy and pushed it on to her, but still, A+ to Engie for your first big crisis!) I'd love to do this with some /d/ users, but I have no inclination to interact with /d/ (it's a personal thing: I don't like interacting with communities, I'm more of a background and when needed admin :3) and thus would need them to come to me for mentoring rather than me trying to chase them down to babysit.

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    • Apologies for bumping this older thread. But since moderation and identifying moderator candidates is something we talked about, I wanted to make sure all the admins and mods know about Discussions Insights, which became available this week.

      Read the Community Central forum thread, or (if you are an admin or mod) just check it out at http://warframe.wikia.com/d/m/insights/posts

      I am confident that this stats area will be helpful to you. Let me know your thoughts! I am happy to start or take part in a new thread about Discussions, if that would be helpful.

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    • I am also happy to report that we're currently working on a notifications system for Discussions that will exist alongside the notifications you have now (at the top of the page) and a tool that is analagous to the Forum's highlight feature, which will use this new notification system.

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    • Hello again!

      Whilst it is no problem at all to bump this thread, many of us were actually hoping for it as we were left rather abruptly with the bulk of the almost alpha stage of /d/

      I shall get straight into the new insights feature, it is indeed a brilliant step in the right direction! A couple of things we notice are broken after this, such as seeing whom had reported the post when viewing reported posts (This is even more so useful to note when we can warn a user about reporting those whom simply have a different opinion than them within their own post, it creates clutter over time which only slows down our moderation duo of myself and Doudich)

      This is indeed a great step as previously noted, but we are still missing the crucial first step to make this a viable option to get the moderation ball gathering momentum; A separate moderation roll that does not have any influence within the Wikia (/wiki/) pages, and vice versa with our Wikia moderators not having power within discussions (/d/).

      Edit: Just some more bugs and features we've seen:

      Integers within total posts/actions cannot exceed 3 digits?

      Reports do not display user ID's of those that reported them?

      /d/ icon does not carry over inside the insights page?

      "Not processed" reports cannot be viewed upon clicking?

      Feature request: Can we display results over 90 days?e.g total?

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    • ArcticEngie wrote:

      we were left rather abruptly with the bulk of the almost alpha stage of /d/

      Apologies if you felt that way! Please note that new features are released to all sites as they become ready. So while you were an "early adopter" you still always get the latest changes! You may have noticed the Following option, which was the biggest change recently. In some areas, such as moderation features, the apps are a little bit behind the web version, but the mobile web version (i.e. using your phone's web browser) is always in sync with desktop web.

      A couple of things we notice are broken after this, such as seeing whom had reported the post when viewing reported posts (This is even more so useful to note when we can warn a user about reporting those whom simply have a different opinion than them within their own post, it creates clutter over time which only slows down our moderation duo of myself and Doudich)

      This is a bug that we'll have fixed very soon! We certainly did not intend to remove that note about who made the reports.

      This is indeed a great step as previously noted, but we are still missing the crucial first step to make this a viable option to get the moderation ball gathering momentum; A separate moderation roll that does not have any influence within the Wikia (/wiki/) pages, and vice versa with our Wikia moderators not having power within discussions (/d/).

      I should be very clear -- there will not be any /d/-specific user groups added. We mean to promote the feeling of a single community. The Discussions Moderator user group has abilities in all of the "conversational" features: Forum, Message Wall, Comments, Chat, as well as Discussions. Similarly, the Content Moderator user group has abilities on article pages (so perhaps that might meet some of your needs around "Wikia moderators not having power within discussions")

      I understand the desire to heavily segment every role on the community. But this can also be done through policy which is ultimately more versatile and will make better community managers in the end. So maybe you have a good moderator candidate that is from /d/ but you don't want them doing mod-things on Message Wall or Chat? Then you make it clear to them that they are not supposed to do mod-things on Message Wall or Chat. And if they violate that agreement, they will be demoted.

      It may be challenging, but you will need to move past the idea that the totally separate moderation role is a requirement for success of /d/. Hopefully Insights will help to identify good leadership candidates from the /d/ crowd.

      I would also like to note that other highly active /d/ communities have embraced the unity. On both Nukapedia (Fallout) and the Walking Dead Wiki, the communities voted to give Discussions Moderators the "block" right so that they could more easily deal with problem users, without having to contact admins.

      Integers within total posts/actions cannot exceed 3 digits? /d/ icon does not carry over inside the insights page?

      We'll be making updates soon to address both of these. The full number will be visible and the graphics will display on the Insights page.

      Reports do not display user ID's of those that reported them?

      As noted above, this is a bug that we'll have fixed shortly.

      "Not processed" reports cannot be viewed upon clicking?

      An interesting request. What would you expect to see upon click? We could potentially link every "not processed" count to the /d/reported page. But we don't have a view that is a list of just the posts reported by a single user, to make each "not processed" count have its own special destination.

      Feature request: Can we display results over 90 days?e.g total?

      Tell me more about why this would be useful. You can see a specific user's total history on their /d/u/ page. The Insights queries are fairly data intensive, which is why you may notice that the page takes a little bit of time to load. We're working on making it perform better, but right now we don't have any plan to go beyond the last 90 days. So that is why I would like to know more.

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    • Hello again! Excuse if this sounds a little rushed, I had just spent two hours writing out a post for it to be sucked up into the endless abyss upon submitting it, welp.

      Anyhow, to the reply, many thanks for taking the time to reply to our continued concerns:

      Alpha stage feeling woes

      Its fine! I think that our sour-feeling still stems mostly from the fact this was almost involuntarily left to us whilst still being within its basic and almost mobile exclusive state, even more so that our attempts to leave after finding out just how "beta" things were, were met with an almost contract bound approach of no.

      We still await any updates with open arms of course! A great example would be the notifications, its already made our experience considerably less clunky and is pushing /d/ toward a path of being usable outside of our mobile browser using community, we cannot wait for something like category stickies for this to truly be a viable alternative to forums, however hate to admit it is still not quite yet a viable successor, but these things take time!

      Bugfixes (all three) Awesome! I am glad it was not just myself that had noticed these things being a little...off, the user identification upon reports was particularly useful in preventing other users from singling a user out in terms of report grieving.

      Not processed reports The very first time I opened up insights, I gave a slight look of surprise on how we possibly could have missed a users reports and immediately hovered my mouse over the text itself to see said posts. This seems very natural in terms of UI, the expected outcome would be, say, if you yourself were visible within the insights list, and I had clicked that, I would expect "User:BertH"'s unresolved reports list and would enable us to quickly pass through them on a user-by-user basis if they have established themselves as someone that consistently reports content, knowing we would have more of a trust on the reported content without needing to read too deeply into the context of the thread in a separate page.

      Of course, I fully understand if this was not possible, it only just feels (once again) natural that it would link to it :)

      Over 90 days I think this would be useful in a statistical analysis sort of way and could possibly assist us in to encourage reporting of content by purchasing some Platinum codes and giving them away to the user(s) with the most APPROVED reports within 30 days, 90 days and overall, allowing us to not discriminate on an influx of activity on one day but none on the remaining 27+ over regular and consistent reports that are approved over longer lapses of time between reports.

      Of course, it would also be helpful to know whom our most frequent user is and to perhaps ask staff that had stopped moderation of /d/ over 90 days ago if they wouldn't mind perhaps sharing some of their expertise with any new staff we may have

      Finally, saving the longest till last, the seperate rolls:

      We specifically brought this up due to the way our current role structure works, having a specialised moderation and admin team is not an alternative to universal "Jack of all trades" sort of moderation. I myself had even started out as a simple chat moderator (Exclusive to Chat) and later gained edit interface rights (Exclusive to coding such as JS and CSS) and was later given moderator rights (All rights excluding admin specific rights which had previously contained banning users from chat and access to code.), using unity as an excuse for this seems a little hypocritical in my own personal opinion when the above already exists, each consisting for the sole reasons of "Not to conflict with moderation of the Wikia where users are not required to do such."

      Additionally, promoting a user to discussions moderator should be as streamlined and painless as possible, many of our current candidates for moderation ironically do not have any Wikia editing experience and to allow them to (potentially) have all the tools that a user that had been editing for months, showing extreme dedication and quality of edits would have earnt and have a general understanding of is unheard of.

      Having to monitor a users action log specifically feels unprofessional and almost along the lines of a "Band-aid" fix to the current issue, We ideally would like to have to deal with as little inter-platform issues as possible and having to place users within an hono(u)r system is just not one that seems the most viable.

      Of course I am not stating that we would like to simply leave our moderators to it on /d/ to their own devices, communication within the localised staff community is critical to ensuring that the WARFRAME Wikia moderation experience is consistent, helpful and can be replicated from all our staff (in which we can safely say that we do!). We need to focus upon the main purpose of the WARFRAME Wikia and that is its encyclopedia aspect, allocating even more and more time to /d/ as opposed to the Wikia staff would be widely considered as ill advised

      It is also worth noting that despite being implied, specialisation of roles is not necessarily a bad thing! Our current moderator and admin structure features multiple strengths of our staff, so much so that we can put a finger to something and say "Hmn, X is not fulfilling its purpose quite right, we should ask User:______ if they are aware of this and have any immediate ideas of what we can do to rectify this!"

      Are you able to go into detail regarding how the above is not one of active thoughts? Roles offer stability, security and above all else, clarity in what users can be expected to preform

      I shall go further in depth about this upon request, but for now I await your next reply with an additional question! What would be the likelyhood of maybe including the most upvoted/uparrowed/+1'ed/GenericLikeButtoned post within the last 30/90/∞ days inside of insights? Many thanks!

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    • I'll post some detailed replies soon. But I just wanted to confirm that the bug has been fixed and the "reported by" indicator is now visible again.

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    • Good to hear! However that has now broke "Deleted by" in user posts http://i.imgur.com/nmwfVNg.png

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    • ArcticEngie wrote:
      Good to hear! However that has now broke "Deleted by" in user posts http://i.imgur.com/nmwfVNg.png

      Looks like you caught that at a brief mid-release moment. The "deleted by" notation is actually brand new as of today. I see the username of the deleting mod/admin listed now. Let me know if you still don't. This has also been a much-requested feature and we hope it's helpful!

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    • BertH wrote:
      Let me know if you still don't. This has also been a much-requested feature and we hope it's helpful!

      Thats a negative on our end! http://i.imgur.com/QN6JHry.png or http://warframe.wikia.com/d/u/22284050 directly

      And I thought we had this already, but yes it is indeed helpful!

      Additionally, we're still going to be getting a reply to the previous I hope? (In time, of course!)

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    • Thank you for the link, apologies for not catching that the screen shot was from an "all posts by user" page. The name of the deleter is displaying properly for mods and admins on the main post list, but not on the "all posts by user" page. I checked with our developers and this is due to a bug that they will be fixing very soon.

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    • Regarding some upcoming features:

      On-site notifications are coming soon (the plan is this month) and we’ll be updating the behavior of the email notifications around that time as well, to be more similar to how watchlist emails work. The Following function is also coming to the app users in the next app versions, this month.

      We don’t have any immediate plans for sticky posts (general or per-category) but this is something we’ve heard about from several communities. And of course it’s something that had been requested for Forum as well. So be assured that we are aware of the desire for this.

      With tomorrow’s release, you should see a username after “deleted by” everywhere (the bug is fixed).

      Insights feedback:

      Thanks for the additional details about your requests, it is helpful!

      Regarding user roles/groups:

      Your points are all very valid. I suppose we are just coming at this from a different perspective. Your focus is on the more immediate needs and the current “split” status of the community, with the wiki and Discussions being somewhat separate. We’re taking a longer view, looking ahead to when Forum content has been merged to Discussions and there is no more Forum. Neither is incorrect and it of course makes sense that your focus is on the “here and now”.

      The only solution I can offer is to do some local group customizations. We could remove all of the non-discussions powers from the Discussions Moderator group, leaving that as a “discussions only” mod role. Then we can add those same permissions to the Content Moderator group, which you are not currently using. The Content Moderator role is intended to be article-focused, and a step between rollback and admin. But this would give it purview over all wiki areas. Let me know what you think, or if that is not clear. It might be better to start a separate thread on this topic.

      What would be the likelyhood of maybe including the most upvoted/uparrowed/+1'ed/GenericLikeButtoned post within the last 30/90/∞ days inside of insights? Many thanks!

      We've had some similar requests, for "most upvoted" (as you said) but also "most followed" and "most replies". So I have a feature request filed for more stats/insights about posts. The current insights are more user-focused, of course. I don't have an ETA but we can certainly see how this information would be useful!

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    • ArcticEngie wrote:

      Excuse if this sounds a little rushed, I had just spent two hours writing out a post for it to be sucked up into the endless abyss upon submitting it, welp.

      One more reply, both amusing and sad. This happened to me as well as I was writing the reply on the other thread. It's pretty devastating. These issues with Forum and its editor are one of the many reasons why Forum is being retired. And also why we are carefully researching what technology to use for the more robust version of the Discussions editor (with markup, etc).

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    • Hello once more! 

      Yeah that has embedded a "Okay, copy this into notepad before posting" habit in myself now, I guess it shall be one of those things that people will miss, but not necessarily want back if there is indeed a merge between the two :P

      But anyhow, multiple thanks for the fixes and answers, I shall get back onto topic as opposed to fixes but before we do, I have noticed a QoL issue that the full option menu disappears from view at specific angles of scroll if the Wikia advert for the app is present http://i.imgur.com/ZYKr5cZ.png

      I've also noticed that posts are able to flow past 999+ now with a specific integer reading on mouse over, this is very much so appreciated! Will there be any further developments to the "Posts not yet verified" section as previously talked about? We understand that it is quite tasking to be query a server for data so we're trying to limit just how much we request that would be of use compared to something like "display all approved post by ______". Its also unusual why the userlinks of insights link to their wikia profile as opposed to /d/ profile, not really much of any notable dislikes, just unusual none to less.

      Interwiki status

      In its later and likely complete stage of /d/ and the eventual retirement of forums, will the desktop port of /d/ be embedded within our current MW framework to be accessed internally from the Wikia (Such as the forums we have now) or will it remain in the external pseudo-off site status that it is in now? This mainly concerns things such as accessibility of /d/ to our desktop users, the feasibility of interwiki ( double [['s) links and the transition between the two.

      It has also come to my attention that we've yet to ask what exactly would happen to the forums post-migration, would they be archived such as our current (and before my time) Indexes? As a Wikia it should be important to us to at least consider our legacy submissions and the options of use we have for them.

      Additionally, speaking of Interwiki links, will /d/ eventually follow the styling of our prefixing and allow for humans to be able to write them easier in the event they may need to (i.e Board:Ooer compared to catId=2834267617483556524 ) Of course this is more so a QoL change we can think of and would be okay either way with how this goes, if we are able to interwiki link these to begin with.

      Roles

      With regards to the roles, we're going to revert everyone that is currently a discussion mod to rollback and append the /d/ mod role to them if they desire it. If you're still okay with this, then please inform us when we can expect it to be live :) We wouldn't want our moderators to have their userrights removed unexpectedly when this change goes live.


      Mod+ exclusive cat's

      One thing that has come to our attention is that what would also be the possibility of rank-locked categories, whilst we do understand the values of a collective community (in which segregation is not something we wish to include over-excessively for the userbase to have equal opportunity ) but this is for our Moderation updates category, in which we inform the userbase what is changing on both your end and our own wikia /d/ ToS (found here http://warframe.wikia.com/d/f?catId=2834267024316696204&sort=latest ), we do not want users to be unable to reply to the threads WITHIN this category, but not start ones within this category as this is exclusively reserved for updates. The WARFRAME Forums also utilises this by allowing for only staff to post things within their "build updates" category, but allowing for users to reply to these. (found https://forums.warframe.com/forum/3-pc-update-build-notes/ ) I hope this makes sense as to what we are trying to explain?

      Whilst we have no immediate plans to include a fully limited cat, or a cat only visible to users of role X, Y and Z due to holding our internal talks externally from the Wikia, I am sure that there would likely be call of it elsewhere, mainly for smaller Wikia's to have a place to contact staff with talks regarding updates pre-implementation.

      Thats all for now, little smaller than usual but just a bit busier this week!

      EDIT: We've come across something a bit concerning in that we are getting reports that users are unable to access all the categories we have to offer, is there any idea on this? http://warframe.wikia.com/d/p/2936444439498851507 Example here.

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    • I have continued this conversation on Thread:1156277, answering the questions raised on the last reply, above.

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    • BertH wrote:
      Apologies for bumping this older thread. But since moderation and identifying moderator candidates is something we talked about, I wanted to make sure all the admins and mods know about Discussions Insights, which became available this week.

      Read the Community Central forum thread, or (if you are an admin or mod) just check it out at https://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Board:Warframe_Discussion

      I am confident that this stats area will be helpful to you. Let me know your thoughts! I am happy to start or take part in a new thread about Discussions, if that would be helpful.

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    • A Lone Tenno
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