Talk:Ember/@comment-24.231.123.84-20191104064033

So ontop of a cap of 10 targets max, Inferno has an invisible wedge-shaped line of sight and will only hit things infront of Ember...because Miasma does that too right? Adding onto that, Inferno doesn't proc true Fire procs for Ember's passive and can't be spam-cast for boosted damage from "Melted Armor" from Fire procs, since it doesn't apply true Fire procs.

Ember's passive empties instantly, rather than "cooling off" and slowly draining. Seems kind of silly, why not have the buff slowly drain since enemies won't be alive long enough in a full squad (especially with Saryn on the squad) to benefit from it, especially since Inferno fire doesn't count.

Immolation's mechanic is just bad. Mesa and Gara don't have to deal with it, and while you could say "But you can just press 3", full stop. No, Mesa and Gara (and Zephyr to some extent) just cast and forget, and their DR stays at max value. The Immolation meter is not a good mechanic. In a game where end-game content will down non-tank frames in a few seconds, adding something the player consistently needs to watch breaks the game flow badly. The bonus damage and bonus armor strip are not worth it at all. And Immolation Radiance isn't that good, Flash Accelerant was a better augment. 45% DR is not worth a slot since if people are concerned about living they can just Operator form or equip Arcane Aegis/Guardian and use Lifestrike.

Fireball combo system is okay but the base duration should be much longer, same for all combo system abilities. Also removing the lingering napalm, I mean it wasn't very helpful but it could have been if they'd scaled its range/duration with mods. They could have left it in, that could have made fireball spamming actually helpful by making lots of long-duration high-damage fire hazards all over the place.

Fireblast still needs to go. Replace it with Ember's original World On Fire, like how they replaced Excal's Super Jump with Radial Javelin. Armor strip mechanic is not needed, because squads can just stack Corrosive Projection. I mean why is the base armor strip not affected by power strength? Even if people went for high strength for insta strip, that'll basically require Blind Rage or some very specific niche builds that will have plenty of drawbacks, so why disable that option? Limiting end-game potential by removing any use or min-maxing from frames seems to be DE's go-to reaction and they need to realize how bad that is. Players will break the game no matter what, until it no longer becomes worth bothering to try.

Fire procs need to stack DoTs. It's only fair, and the whole "melt armor" mechanic is moot because, again, Corrosive Projection x4 exists. Even without corrosive projection, Bleed Procs can easily reach such high levels that you stop caring about armor, it's not very hard to achieve 50,000 and higher bleed procs from most snipers alone thanks to hunters munitions. And don't forget we also have corrosive procs (Yet again another Saryn speciality) and shattering impact. They should have just fixed the panic animation for fire procs to last the entire duration, similar to how Trinity's Energy Vampire forces enemies into stun animation over and over. As it is, Fire Panic animation often gets skipped if the enemy has any form of special attack (Heavy Gunner seismic shockwave, Ancient's grappling hook). Even the normal close-range "gun bash" attack regular units do will often skip them out of the panic animation.

Also why the heck does Saryn Prime still have more energy than Ember Prime? DE has acknowledged many, many times, even in the devstream showing the rework, that Ember is one of the most energy hungry (imo THE most energy hungry alongside Nova) frames in the game but they didn't even increase her base energy, or any of her other stats. Usually a rework would include changing the frame's stats. If they're pushing ember to be more of a support frame she should get an armor buff to at least Rhino tier so she isn't forced to use Immolation 24/7, because Immolation discourages using Inferno/Fireball and is just another thing to distract players from focusing on the game/objectives because of Immolation's massive drain if you go into overheat. And since they made basically all stats matter now, you can't rely on stream+fleeting since now you want all your ability stats positive.

I know people get excited by the word rework, and you tend to think every rework is Pablo's midas touch. I know a lot of the community thinks DE can do no wrong, and that any negative feedback is "mindless/stupid" hate, but did anyone stop and think that 2 reworks at once, for the most-in-need of rework frames in the game, was a bad sign? A sigh of rush and half-baked? A proper rework focuses on one frame at a time. Did anyone who was excited for the rework actually actively play Ember in high level content besides against Infested? And I mean arbitrations, tier-3 sorties and elite onslaught are where I start counting "end-game". Please, consider that there are people who have been playing this frame as their main for a long time, and while you might say "Well I play/tried her now", keep in mind you probably aren't going actively play her for very long once the "new frame smell" wears off. If you only try an underplayed frame post-rework, odds are you won't add it to your main roster/most used frames after the rework hype wears off. The best people to provide feedback on a post-rework frame are the ones who were maining the frame pre-rework because they know if the frame's overall viability and use has improved or declined. A rework shouldn't get people to try a frame, it should make the frame balanced and put it on equal end-game footing with stuff like Rhino, Mesa, Saryn, Trinity, Nidus and Gara. This rework is the same garbage shuffled around with a new coat of paint. In fact, while her first 3 abilities are still pointess, Inferno is in most cases a nerf over World On Fire, because of Inferno's narrow line of sight targeting, while WoF at least provided a constant, omni-directional source of CC. And before you say "Mindless toggle and forget", let's not forget Equinox, one of the most beloved frames for speed-running mid/low level missions, is exactly that.

And my final point: Damage Abilitiues don't scale as well as Weapons. You aren't going to be killing 3rd-Mission Sortie enemies with abilities (excluding Equinox/Saryn/Mesa), you're going to be mowing down crowds of them with your TiberonP/SomaP or cleaving through them with GramP/GalatineP or be that madlad trying to blow himself up with something like Angstrum at point-blank. The only way to keep pure-damage kits like Ember's relevant is to make them brainlessly OP, and then that just turns Ember into another Saryn/Mesa which is just as bad.

I know DE doesn't play high level content but if they want to rework a frame they really should go look for input from veterans with a lot of experience with the frame. Turning all of WF into one big "Beginner-catered experience" by focusing on early game content and trying to get people to "Try" a frame instead of making it good for end-game is exactly the problem with end-game. Nothing for vets to do, and too many frames designed for level 30 content.