Talk:Juggernaut/@comment-3436482-20160326222056/@comment-27896859-20160327101402

I'm sorry, you're just being salty. You're not fighting Juggy properly if he is apparently "completely invincible". He can take damage, just that it's reduced.

Stay about 10m away from him at all times. Close enough to attack when he rears up, yet far enough to dodge the quills and charge. The quills will "instant kill" you because they are "a scaled version of Phorid's Spine Strike". If you've played this game enough, it's really not a surprise that this can kill you instantly, considering how Phorid's quills are dangerous enough.

The trick here is that you have to keep moving. The Juggernaut has dumb AI, and the quills are fast but not hitscan. Avoiding them is possible. Standing still is just silly. If you are any frame that isn't Trinity with Link, Mirage with Eclipse on defensive, or something that can mitigate extreme amounts of damage (we're talking more than 95% here), then you are a fool to think you could even take a hit from the Juggernaut's quills. In fact, on Sorties, Trinity's Link and a 90% Blessing isn't enough to save you.

About your second point, DE does know how boss fights work, that's why they're putting reworks in. Look at Tyl Regor 2.0! Don't his voice clips just make your chest tighten with anticipation...? (As for the Sergeant, he really needs a rework, and it's on the way) Most of the bosses in Warframe are still pretty much unchanged since beta, that's why they seem a bit boring to fight. Minibosses such as Manics, Bursas (In groups they become a pain in the butt), Juggernauts, Sentie- (oopsie spoiler!) Are meant to drop in and ruin your progress.

Likely as a punishment for doing something easily avoidable.

Manics and Bursas won't bother you if you leave the alarms OFF. Juggernauts wouldn't assault you if you just hid for about 30 seconds, won't pose a threat unless you made a conscious effort to get your picture taken with them.

It's actually quite well designed, mechanics-wise. In exchange for high attack and durability, the Juggernaut sacrifices a lot of speed. In between charges it's extremely slow. Besides, I don't see how a Juggernaut ruining your mission or a boss fight against Tyl Regor is considered "the worst part of the game". The boss fights are meant to be challenging, to test your skills and, if you emerge victorious, give you rewards, whether it be Warframe Parts, Rare Resources (Sometimes), or Nav Segments. It

As for your criticism of the design, this thing wasn't designed by DE, for a start. Secondly, it's Infested. I don't see many Infested heavy units winning any beauty contests, do you? So expect it to be ugly. Then you'll hate it more and be willing to slaughter it.

"They're nothing but a complete chore to fight". Well, why in the world would you lure it out then? It's like saying "Oh my gawd I can't swim I'm scared of water" and the promptly jumping into an ocean and blaming the gods for making your life so difficult.

And yeah, you've got one thing correct. No one bothers about Juggernauts because they're a hindrance to speedruns.

"With the exception of Vor and the Hyena Pack and other enemies that are actually vulnerable and depend on actual skill and tactics-"

Let me stop you there.

Vor has THREE stages of invulnerability. How many in-game hours have you played NOT to have noticed this?

And... about the Hyenas, VERY gracious of you to mention these lupine automobiles. Let me see what Hyena Pb does. Oh looky look! He has Lead Storm, basically Phorid's quills except they fire in ALL DIRECTIONS! WOW! What about Hyena Ln? Oh, he's basically got the Juggernaut's Infested Spawning mass, and it Cold Procs you! Let's see Ng. He has a Blast Grenade that knocks you down. Sounds like Juggernaut's shockwave to me. Oh hey, Hyena Th has a charge attack, just like the Juggernaut! What a coincidence! Illuminati confirmed!

(Hey, for all you know the Juggernaut is an Infested Hyena.)

By the way, your definition of "Skill and tactics" is really quite far off from actual skill and tactics. Fighting Vor is actually very straightforward. Just aim and fire. You'll wreck their faces with whatever high-end weapon you have in no time flat. Same for the Hyenas. And Kela De Thaym. And the Sergeant. And Ambulas. It's just W+M1, doesn't sound like much skill is required. Just a Tonkor.

Now let's look at some bosses that require some actual skill unless you happen to be the exact Warframe meant to be used against them.

The Jackal: Lotus was right when she said "This will be unlike any enemy you have faced yet." She meant it, this is the first boss battle where you need to think. First-timers will immediately notice Jackal's chassis is invulnerable and will proceed to find a weakpoint. Jackal uses a variety of dangerous attacks to make sure that you are in constant danger at any distance. (Shockwaves, Railgun, Missiles) Your "tactics" here are to flank Jackal, using the four pillars around you for cover while dealing consistent damage to his legs, then striking when he falls down.

And that boss fight is on Venus.

So with that, please learn how to play tactically.

Tactical: "relating to or constituting actions carefully planned to gain a specific military end"

So plan how you should kill the Juggernaut, not (try to) tank the smiting power of a thousand Phorids and then complain "OMG this boss to difficult to kill he needs nerf".

So let me conclude with a series of tips for you.

1. Avoid the darn fight altogether. Be a smart Tenno.

2. If you just so happen to infuriate Mr Juggy, keep moving around him, and try to lead him to an open area.

3. Shooting when he rears up is apparently the only way you know how to damage him, why not practice the the Simulacrum and see what other ways you can exploit this amalgamation? Just before he fires his quills, he opens up his back. Shoot him in there. His tentacles also take extra damage, if you have said "skill and tactics" to land a well-timed shot on them.

4.If it isn't an Exterminate, run away from him. His size and "super fast movement" make it extremely difficult for him to chase you. Unless you happen to be the silly Frost with a Hobbled Key. In that case you are dead meat.

5. Bring a Tonkor. High damage-per-shot weapons usually work better, especially if you can crit upon hitting his weak points. Sure, if the automatic assault rifle of your choice happens to be the Boltor Prime, that works too.

6. Slash and Corrosive. It works if you have a Marelok and Maim with PP and Jolt. The Corrosive Proc makes it much easier to kill him. In AGGP's own words, "Make sure you equip the appropriate elemental combos to do the optimal amount of damage!"

Back to your first sentence, I do hope you are the only one, although I know for sure there are other players who feel the same way. It's unfortunate. Maybe take a short break from Warframe before you accidentally burn yourself out? Drink some coffee and eat candy, it helps relieve stress.