Talk:Ember/@comment-2600:8804:6400:2B9:48EC:8409:A412:B821-20190129054714/@comment-24.231.123.84-20190203085406

I can't tell if you're a troll or just naive. I've been an ember main going on nearly 6 years and she is even more underpowered than her reputation says. Problem is the community cries that she kill-hoardes at venus, but Saryns kill-hoarding in elite onslaught is fine for some reason. And SarynP is way tankier than EmberP ontop of more energy for casting.

Or you might just be lying and only looking at on-paper without having actually used her, and are falling for the most common gaming pitfall mistake: thinking on-paper = in-game performance. In Warframe especially, on-paper and theoretical numbers don't add up as you'd expect in actual gameplay.

Theories rarely ever work as you'd expect in this game.

A few points to consider:

-Ember's base damage has overall very bad falloff. In order to keep up decent damage you have to be constantly spamming accelerant and world-on-fire. And Ember/EmberP has a majorly low energy cap. EmberP has less energy than SarynP and ChromaP, both super tanky compared to her. Most frames with nuke potential are 1-button or simple-mechanics with MASSIVE payoffs *cough* saryn nova equinox. Ember requires far too much inefficient setup for very little payoff.

-Ember had one of the original "% damage reduction" skills called Overheat. It was removed for being "OP" even though it was capped at 90%. Now, we have a bunch of frames with % reductions skill but Ember's is still long gone.

-World On Fire used to hit 3 targets at once back in 2013~2014. And the range nerf killed WoF completely, even building for max range you give up so many mod-spots that you NEED for efficiency and duration and damage. Ember's kit as a whole needs all power stats, meaning you can't use corrupt mods which are the corner-stone of most meta-builds, and you can't go Umbral since only Intensify adds anything to her build and you end up with little room for other mods you need to make her useful.

-Fireblast has always been a horrible skill. The firewall is only a small bandaid, and since range mods don't affect it, it's a complete waste to build for range. It's even been suggested they turn fireblast into a fire-version of oberon's hallowed ground, far more useful than a stupid ring. And the "bonus damage when shooting through the fire ring" mechanic is a waste since you have to shoot through the ACTUAL fire, which is only a small boost and inefficient both to line up shots, place the ring in an optimal "shoot-through" position to also hit enemies without using Fire Panic, which is a waste of a slot. You'll find if you actually play with her you're never going to effectively or even quickly be able to set down a fire ring then get into a spot to shoot through it WHILE enemies are in the right spot to be hit, since again, your bullet/projectile must past through the fire-ring itself to receive bonus damage. That doesn't work in Warframe's fast-paced gameplay where standing still = death. Fireblast is at best a quick crowd-pusher or venus-mobkiller.

-Flash Accelerant was only buffed *very* recently, as in sometime 2019, and it was never mentioned. Up until recently it has only increased the fire-proc DoT of her skills and never increased the damage, and before THAT it didn't increase her damage or DoTs at all, AND BEFORE THAT it didn't even affect Ember.

-Fireball, like Fireblast, needs a rework. Sure, you could break your pinky-finger holding 1 to charge fireball, hit 2 for accelerant, line up a shot and throw the fireball, wait for it to hit the target,and do decent damage to one enemy and wait for it to slowly die. . .or left click with any decent-modded gun and do the job quicker and less-painfully. It isn't about min-maxing, it's about having the choice of being effective with your favorite frame and not being an anchor because 3 of your 4 powers are garbage. Meanwhile ChromaP 1shots eidolons and SarynP kill-steals 95% of kills in Elite Onslaught. Where's the rage about saryn killhoarding? We nerfed Ember for killhoarding at under-level-30 so why doesn't Saryn get nerfed for kill-hoarding at over-level-100... And I mean would it kill them to switch fireball's mechanic to a double-tap fires instantly, and a single tap will charge it and keep it held until the power is used again? Having a fully charged fireball always ready would actually be kind of useful for some situations, rather than needing to charge it each time.

Personally, I'd really like to see a rework of Fireball to be closer to Spore. Ember auto-casts an explosion on the target, dealing damage and setting them and targets near them on fire. Charging increases damage/range. Explosion-radius and damage affected by mods of course.

-EmberP's low energy cap is insulting. SarynP, a non-magetype, shares the highest energy cap along with ChromaP and VoltP and Baruuk. ChromaP and SarynP are both super tanky, VoltP is a squishy magetype. EmberP should at least have LokiP's energy cap or something.

-Ember is only good vs corpus. Despite she used to be anti-infested, with how overpowered ancient disruptors are and the scaling of enemies, she becomes completely useless against them whenever a disruptor or healer shows up. Even a swarm mutalist ruins her potential since they give a large amount of armor to infested, ontop of the fact that ancients can be Arsenic, also giving the enemies essentially fire-immunity. Ember is only good vs corpus because WoF always hits the 3x weakspot of MOAs, which at higher levels seem to make up majority of the corpus spawns.

-World on Fire's status chance is too low. Nova's molecular prime handle's power strength 'additive' when calculating her speed debuff, breaking the rule every other frame follows. Ember's world on fire status chance should do the same, so a maxed intensify should give you 65% status chance, instead of 45%. You need almost 300% power strength to get 100% status chance, and in order to achieve that you need to use far too many mods, leaving you little room for range mods or durability mods, limited your overall nuke potential. Not to mention they still have not returned WoF to it's original 3-target-per-tick form, back how it was in 2013~2014. If they won't return the 3-target-per-tick mechanic they need to buff the damage. 400 is too low given the slow fire-rate.

A better revamp and more fitting for the name "World On Fire" Imo would be ember just creates a large heat zone around her, similar to equinox, where *all* enemies within the zone take rapid fire damage. That's more appropriate for a "crowd control light-armor killer". Even if the damage is low, when everything around you is constantly bursting into flames, well, it's easier to survive in T3 sorties and Elite Onslaught.

-Ember Prime's "prime stat" buffs were garbage. Most frames are given 3 stats or 2 very useful stats. Ember receieved a pathetic 25 shield and armor, proof of how little DE cares about the fire frame. Neither of those stats impact her durability. She should have been given movespeed and energy given they stated in 2018 she is the "caster mage-type" frame.

-Summary: You need too much setup for Ember's kit to be "decent", and it gives too little payoff,  when you can just use Ignis and do the job much quicker, and you have weapons that all eliminate the point of her being a DPS frame. Her only function for a while now was World On Fire adding "fire support" CC by setting enemies on fire or killing weak mobs from behind cover. With the completely stupid choice of nerfing her range over time, now you can't even use it for more than a few seconds. Anything you can use Ember for, you can use Ignis or anything else for instead. Heck for speed-running most missions a high-range Equinox does the job quicker. And since Ember has absolutely no late-game potential it's pointless to use her. And again, don't trust your on-paper math. It does not add up the way you'd expect, and you'll almost never be able to set up anything properly to get any possible damage out of her kit. In-game is a very different world vs on-paper.

^ I wish I could say that was all I had to point out but there's so much BS surrounding Ember if you've been around as long as I have.